Can some of the anti-adoption people explain this please? Open to everyone?

Serenity71

Hi Snickette,

Its true in many ways what you've said in the details of your question. No one person handles trauma the same. Nor does everyone suffer from it in every situation simply because another person has. (I'm aware of things that my crop up that could bother them about their adoption, but I'm not treating my kids as traumatised all their life. because of one book.)

I've spoken to 'professionals' who work with fostered kids and foster parents themselves. The social workers focus on the birth family and their needs and wants- and the foster family focuses on the kids. That's what its like in a lot of cases. They totally ignore what foster parents are telling them, and treat them like they don't know anything and wonder why its hard to keep GOOD foster families. (Its rare to find a social worker that understands and can work with both sides equally. I've met one of those social workers that get it, and she was GOLD...)

Thats way I say often here and IRL that a uni degree isn't enough to be a social worker with fostering. They need to foster for at least four years themselves and see what the kids go through AFTER these visits when they're back in a place they feel safe in. (some kids do want their parents so I'm not saying all here.)

Since my kids spent time in foster care I've gotten to know a few very experienced carers who have told me what its like to work with people who treat them with contempt when they try to tell them the truth.

After all a doctor has to have field experience by working with patients, why not social services personnel.

logic - emotions = science.

a healing adoptee

Well, I had been curious growing up and i asked questions. i do think adoption is fine, in cases of abuse and neglect or if the parents give up their rights.

kookooberry

Hmmm...this is an interesting question and I can see where everyone is coming from in their responses.

When I was a teenager, someone called DSS because my dad was neglecting me. I was totally responsible for my own care and I had to have a job in order to feed and clothe myself. My dad had "checked-out" several years before and, effectively, I was left to "raise" myself.

My dad confronted me about the call, blamed me, accused me of telling people about his neglect. But I hadn't! Someone had taken it upon herself to call!

I can remember feeling so angry that someone had called! I loved my dad, and it was nobody's business what was happening in our home! How dare they! But on the other hand, I remember feeling relief -- at last someone had noticed, and they *knew* it wasn't right the way I was being treated!

I can remember being worried that I would be removed from our home. I wanted to stay with my dad!

I share this story because I imagine that many kids in care feel the same way. It must be confusing to feel love for your parent/s and to know that they aren't treating you well and then feel love for your foster parent/s who are caring for you and giving you a safe place to stay. How difficult it must be to handle those conflicting loyalties!

Visits can be very stressful for children. It's little wonder! Again, I think the children are dealing with conflicting loyalties. They want their parents to do better, they want to go home! How much it must hurt their hearts to be away from their families, waiting and hoping for things to get better. But if they have good foster parents, they are bonding with them, having that chance to feel safe and cared-for, seeing that how things were with their parents weren't "normal" or right. Older children can at least make some sense of their feelings, but babies and little ones -- what can they do?!

I don't believe in the "blank slate" theory. I believe that most of who we are is down to biology. Of course our environment plays a part in who we become, but who we are is in our genes. Our adopted daughter looks like her parents, has the same temperment as her mom, is artistic like her dad and is physical and athletic like both of them! They are who she is. Yes, we love her and provide for her, but she is not only *our* daughter.

Kazi

There is no such thing as an absolute when it comes to experience. There are just too many variables. You can put 2 adoptees in a room with the same birth history and same upbringing and they could feel completely differently regarding adoption. And of course this is true of every occurrence in life, from marriage to divorce to medical issues and so on. If you haven't felt any sense of loss, then I believe you and no one has the right to tell you that you are in denial. It is incredibly condescending. Your experience is yours and shouldn't be discounted nor should you discount anyone who feels differently (not that you did).

ETA: Inde, slip on your bifocals, sweetie, the OP said her question was open to everyone. Reading... it's not just for first graders anymore :))

kitta

Those of us who experienced trauma can only state what we felt, saw, or heard from those whose experiences were similar to ours.

I experienced the loss of a child during the BSE for no reason other than my unmarried status, and the abandonment of his father, who could have supported us but chose not to. My parents engineered an adoption, along with a crooked child placement agency.

My son and I reunited later, and my child told me that he was never comfortable with being adopted,felt rejected and abandoned, and that the situation went from bad to worse.

His aparents were incompetent, and then abusive to him, to the point of breaking bones.

My sons health was not good, to say the least.

I also worked professionally with children, and saw adopted children who expressed much pain regarding adoption.

For decades, I have worked in legislation and search/support in the child welfare/surrender/adoption records area.Over and over, I hear from adopted people who say they would rather to have NOT been adopted.

the adopted people I have known, have numbered now, into the thousands, and that is enought to convince me that there is trouble with adoption.

eta:Snickett:you are correct about the blank slate theory, it became popular during WW2 and was the basis, at least partly, for the "baby scoop era." Nurture was supposed to trump genetic nature. Adoptive parents were told to take the baby home and just provide love.Everyone involved in adoption was supposed to "forget' that there had ever been an original family.

Mei-Ling

"Wasn't there a time, many years ago where 'scientific research' stated that all children were blank slates with no inherent personality traits, quirks, abilities or talents?"

So you're saying that a mother who has carried a child for 9 months would be able to relinquish without ANY negative effects or emotions whatsoever?

That the separation cannot have affected the bond between mother & infant while the infant has grown in-utero?

No, not all adoptees have the same amount of trauma. Some even believe they don't have any trauma. That's their perspective.

As a bio mother once noted on my blog:

"After giving birth though, and experiencing the bond one has with their child, that comes out of their body, there is no way you are going to convince me that mother/child are not part of a dyad, and that when one goes missing it is a trauma for both, no way. Try reading Bowlby."

Carol c

I agree with you that in some cases adoption might be necessary. Actually I would prefer legalized guardianship where the child still maintains their true identity, but if there is abuse or a child is orphaned and there is no other family member; I believe the most important thing is to get that child into a stable home.

However, I disagree with a couple of your points. You seem to be focused on semantics rather than the issue of whether adopted children *all* have these issues. Of course probably not *all* children do and if you've read Bowlby, Verrier and some of the other experts on child development; in addition to reading numerous books written by adopted people themselves - it is pretty certain that the majority of children separated from their natural mothers have very similar characteristics. I respectfully ask you then, why is it assumptive for adopted people to share their own experiences and get confirmation from others that they shared similar feelings?

I think it's also possible that some children's personalities are more compliant and that could very well be genetic. But I really wonder how all of your foster children could have exactly the same kind of personality that immediately *bonds* to a foster parent as you state your experience has been? I'm not saying you are lying - I believe you are reading some of these children's reactions to the shock of separation incorrectly.

I also take issue with you stating that you *bonded* with all of your foster children. Have you read "The Primal Wound" by Verrier? I strongly suggest you do so. Children do not typically *bond* with foster and adoptive parents - they can form an *attachment*. That's not a bad thing but very different.
Bonding begins in the womb and lasts throughout the first 6 to 9 months of a child's life. If that bonding process is disrupted, the child often has difficulty ever feeling total trust in a parental figure again. (C'mon, bring on the thumbs down).. LOL

You say it won't bother you if people disagree, yet when Linny expresses her opinion you immediately disagree. Maybe someone here used the word "all" to describe their experience, but most posters here don't generalize like that. Why focus on the small group that does?

Indian-vision

well worded , good question !!

Like i said before and will reiterate again. How can EVERY single human being , just because they have a few vital things in common be clubbed together to have the same feelings and experience.

Every one is wired differently. People handle stress, trauma differently. Cope with experiences differently. yes things like family, culture, genetics, friendships are extrenal influences too. But no i feel its unfair to generalise anyone and anyone's experience.

Respect all different emotions and learn from them.

MamaKate

Hi, Snickette.

I am not anti-adoption, I am pro-reform. I agree that there are cases where adoption is necessary.

I have been a foster sister most of my life. I have been working with foster children since I was a teen and spent 5 years as a GAL as a young adult. I have a large number of friends who are intimately entwined in adoption and foster care.

One thing I have learned is that absolutely NO ONE's experience is the same. There might be similarities but they are never the same. Snowflakes, people, adoptions....ALL DIFFERENT. No one really knows what someone else is feeling or thinking.

I base my opinions on my experiences and those of the people I know very well along with the things I read and hear from other sources. I try to be pretty balanced and look at all points of view. As far as I am concerned, it is undeniable that a large number of people, adults and children, suffer trauma from separation. It is also undeniable that others do not feel the same way.

For me, I would prefer NOT TO TAKE THE RISK of causing that kind of significant and life altering damage a child (who is not necessarily able to communicate how it is effecting them) will suffer from separation unless his or her need for well-being/safety outweighs that risk - such as a situation involving neglect or abuse.

Even when I feel that separation is in the best interest of a child (and believe me - I have made that recommendation more than once) it is of paramount importance to me that that child's emotional well-being and rights are looked after and ensured.

The CHILD is the one who has always been my greatest concern - including the protection of their FUTURE selves, not just their present needs. There should be a level of preparedness about the fact that the adoptee MIGHT have negative feelings or adverse reactions that needs to be addressed BEFORE separation or an adoption takes place rather than an assumption that it won't or claiming that it rarely/never happens and leaving children and families out to dry when it does.

If it does happen, it should be addressed and not dismissed.
If it doesn't, thank goodness it didn't - but never think that it might not happen later.

JMHO.

cantstopLinnyG

There has been no one that has said the word ALL.
In MOST cases, separation from mother=trauma. It is scientific fact.

I do not dismiss people who do not have those feelings or issues. They do exist, but they are definitely in the minority.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/y73646n507593n76/
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/108/2/e30
http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0140673602096745

http://www.amfor.net/statistics.html

I find your experiences with your foster children to be very hard to believe. I have worked with abused children, and it is fact most of them do not want to be separated from the parents..EVEN when there is abuse. It is nature. Children have a bond with their parents, even if those parents are horrible parents. Maybe the children "make a fuss" when they go to their parents because they realize how awful it is to go through the separation process again? I have seen that, too.

There are no absolutes when it comes to adoption and the feelings about it.

I am NOT anti-adoption. I am anti-unethical adoption, closed adoption, and infant and international adoption. I am pro foster care and foster to adopt. I am a BSE baby with great a parents and I am in reunion and love both of my families. I do not like the secrets and lies involved with adoptions, and believe children should remain with their families and only be adopted if NO ONE in the family can take them. I am also against agencies and lawyers pocketing HUGE sums of cash for babies. Its human trafficking, plain and simple.

***eta****

You wrote:
"May I ask if you have been a foster parent? Have you actually raised foster children, 24/7? Have you come to know them intimitely, as only mothers (of all kinds) can know their children?"

I myself have not been a foster parent, but have several friends who have been for over 25 years. My sister in law adopted a child from foster care.
I have worked with abused children at a large teaching hospital, and with several non-profit agencies.

You wrote: "It may surprise you to hear how many children feel pressured into saying how much they love their biological parents."

It may surprise YOU to hear how many children feel pressured into saying how much they love their foster parents. Or even adoptive parents, for that matter.

You wrote:
"How much they love their biological parents in spite of the abuse they have suffered. Or the lasting trauma that instantly kick starts their brains into a fear response, a fight or flight mode, at the sight of their parents."

That was not my point. My point was that even in cases of abuse, children still love their parents, it is not natural for a mother and child to be separated. It is human nature to stay with your family, even if it is unhealthy. Of course it is stressful...do you honestly think a child who is separated from the parents (no matter what the reason may be) will come skipping back to your house all smiles? No. Everything about the situation is traumatic.

If I wrote something negative about foster parenting, it may have been taken out of context. I am PRO- FOSTER CARE and Foster to adopt.

I just find it hard to believe the "vast majority" of your foster kids dont want their mothers. It seems more than just a coincidence that you, an adoptee, shares that same feeling.

"Research can be, and is all the time, proved invalid or inaccurate."

Yes it can. But Im a stats girl, and majority rules.

HappyMomAnna

Thanks for asking this question and sharing how you feel. I find it helpful to hear the opinions and feelings of other people with an experience different then mine.

I have always wondered about the fact that "Some" people just have different feelings or ways to cope. I have often read the post here and other places where someone feels they do not "Fit" and has a "Missing" in their hearts.... I HAVE ALWAYS HAD FEELINGS LIKE THIS--but, I wasn't adopted.

In my life I have not felt the "same" as my family and for years I thought I was missing a twin? Or Something.... I have many of the same kinds of feelings some people describe--and, Apparently according to some--this fact means nothing?

I have often wondered if I had been Adopted just how I would handle these feelings I have even though I am not adopted.... It would be nice to PUT a Reason to feelings I have rather then continue to feel like I don't Fit....

Heather B

What you describe would be exactly how I was described as a child - no problems, perfectly fine and well-adjusted

HA! you have absolutely no idea what goes on inside a child's mind in moments of self-reflection. None.

Adoptees ought to be re-named 'Adaptees' we are excellent chameleons

"Yet we're constantly told by some people that this WILL happen to ALL adoptees." <<<<<<<<<<you're making this up! people will tell their own truths and define their own experiences for the good of little adoptees of today and those who choose to listen! It is apparent that your fingers are placed firmly in your ears LOL

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