Do Infants/Fetuses ever have a choice?

Theresa

Carnie the idea is that non-adopted infants aren't held to agreements made by their parents once they are adults.

For example, the birth certificate. Even an infant born into an abusive home is entitled to their birth certificate when they are an adult. If they are removed from that abusive home and placed in foster care, they'll still get their birth certificate when they are an adult. Only adoptees are discriminated against if they're unlucky enough to be born in a sealed records state.

That's where the entitlement comes in - or lack of entitlement I should say. No one has a *choice* to whom they are born, but adoptees get the double whammy of having to abide by decisions that were made for them without their consent, even once they are adults.

Santa's Lil' Helper

I never had a choice to be born to a nineteen year old and twenty four year old that were too ill prepared for parenthood.

They learned as time passed but I would have preferred not being their learning experience!

~ILovePuppies!!~

No, babies/infants/fetuses do not have a choice. They are not even old enough to make a decision. The only thing they can do is wait and see what their home will be like. Hopefully, everyone on this earth would treat a baby wonderfully and not abuse them. Adopted kids as they get older need their space, so they can go through the phase of trying to figure out what went wrong with being with their birth parents. There's alot to think about when adopting a kid.

Lillie

No, but non-adopted babies don't lose anything in order to be raised by their own parents. Adoptees do...their mothers, fathers, entire families, histories, birth certificates, original identities, genealogies, medical histories, the list goes on.

THAT is what adoptees didn't have a choice in...losing everything just to be adopted into a "forever family".

a healing adoptee

As, humans we want control. it makes us feel good when we make our own decisions. with adoption, there are two sides and both sides made the decision. So the adoptee is left dealing with the aftermath of that decision. basically i feel that i did not have control. and i'm a person who likes to control everything. so knowing that i couldn't control this sometimes makes me depressed. call me crazy but that is how i view it.

Gershom

Once a child is born those in the childs life have a moral and ethical responsibility to do what is in the best interests of the child.

Adoption strips adoptees of their rights and treats them like commodities, and anyone who takes place in that should be held accountable.

No, fetus's don't have a choice, but once they're born society DOES have a choice to treat them right or not. Its called the Convention of the Rights of the Child.

So fetus's don't have choices, lets just screw them over and over and over again until they're finally old enough to speak for themselves and then see how they feel right? Because afterall, they didn't have choices to begin with. Is that your argument carney? Unreal.

If someones going to be taking part in an adoption, they'd darn well better hope that they treat the adoptee ethically or one day that "adoptee" will be pretty pissed if they have any common sense.

ETA: i've seen it all today, now people are saying that mental disorders are going to be a worthy position in removing children from their home. Shellyp needs to move to the UK where they've been trying to do just that. Watch out, if you're schizophrenic, some think you should automatically lose your child.

amyburt40

Theresa said it best. The natural parents and the adoptive parents signed a contract with the adoption agency. Adoptees in 44 states are held bound by decision made about them as children for eternity.

Here are some things that American adoptive parents should be concerned about.

1. Without the OBC, adoptees are not being allowed to join the military. They can't prove their birth.

2. Without the OBC, adoptees are not able to get passports. They can't prove their birth.

3. States are going to a voter identification by presenting their birth certificates. Indiana just had this go to the Supreme Court. Missouri and a couple of other states are looking into this. Most people have never seen an amened birth certificate. Many amended birth certificates are not complete. Mine isn't. I won't be able to vote soon. They will want me to prove my birth.

When the privacy of a natural mother violates my rights as an American citizen, then I get mad. I fight back.

LaurieDB

With the foetus, it's pretty moot, as there is not life after the decision as actions following that decision. However, with adoption, there is a life that continues, usually well into adulthood, following the decision and subsequent actions. Because of this very basic difference between the two scenarios, no viable comparison can be made.

Being treated unequally under the law because of the actions of our PARENTS, not our own actions, is not right.

Gaia Raain

You're right. I didn't have a choice to be born into an abusive home, where my parents used drugs and alcohol, left us with child molesters for babysitters, ignored us, got so drunk/high that they forgot us at parties...shall I go on?

The major difference here is that NO ONE tells me to be grateful for the abusive parents I had. But EVERYONE tells adoptees to be grateful for the adoptive family they have. Whether their family was good or not has nothing to do with the fact that they didn't have any more choice than I did. It's about equality. Adoptees are not given the same amount of freedom to grieve their losses. When I tell someone my parents were abusive, people understand my grief. When an adoptee says, "I was abandoned", people try to explain it away (like you're doing in this question), and make it seem less traumatic.

I don't care if adoption has traumatized you or not. Your feelings don't give you the right to dictate others' feelings. Everyone here has just as much right to grieve their losses as you do. REGARDLESS of what those losses are, and regardless if you believe they are losses.

celtic.piskie

We didn't have a choice, no-one does.

But the state does. When someone adopts, the state sees if they're suitable to bring up children.

That's where some of it comes from, that someone said these people are suitable, and often, they're definitly not.

Someone chose for me to go in the homes that I went to, someone chose the parents that i had.

Someone chose wrong,

That's the problem most of the time, that someone sat in a chair somewhere and chose FOR us.

m'smama

I agree with you. I wonder sometimes if adoptees who have such a strong dislike for adoption - because they had bad childhoods - ever consider how much WORSE their lives might have been had their biological parents decided to raise them.

Teacup

ummm infants do not have a choice.

Beth

No, of course not. They're minors, just like they are after they are born. They are at the mercy of whatever adult has taken charge of them. It's unfortunate, but that's just how it is.

belleandrex

No, They don't.
I was adopted and I'm happy my birth mom gave me life and i am thank full for that.

Shelly P. Tofu, E.M.T.

You have a very good point, as usual

I was raised by my biological parents, but I had just as little "say" in who my parents were and what they were like as ANY adoptee.. I just got lucky.. they happened to be AWESOME.. I fully realize that not all children are that lucky with their biological parents..

watch "Sybil" with Sally Field.. (a true story)
That was NOT her "adopted" mother that messed her up so badly..it was her biological mother.. who happened to be a pschitsophrenic.. one of MANY conditions that can make someone unfit to parent their child..

until all these things (drug use, abuse, pschitsophrenia, other mental disorders, DEATH) do not exist any more, adoption will be NECESSARY, and in some children's best interest .

But I also agree that no one should be discriminated against in being allowed access to their OBC...

ETA: Gershom.. I said pschitsophrenia is one of many conditions that CAN make someone an unfit parent.. Not ALWAYS.. every pschitsophrenic is different, I'm sure..

Obviously, you've never watched Sybil, (yes, it's a movie, but a fairly accurate "documentary" on of a woman dealing with severe DID as a result of horrendous abuse by her pschitsophrenic mother) I just cite it as an extreme example.. But you can read up on any other similar cases..

Should pschitophrenics lose their children? Not automatically.. I never said so.. But many pschitsophrenics hear voices.. LOTS of voices.. telling them all kinds of things.. the voices are so intense and confusing it makes the person unable to know what is true and what isn't.. Inevitably, many of them start to OBEY what the voices are telling them to do.. this CAN be a very BAD environment for a child..

YOU want to be parented by someone who's hearing and obeying voices urging her to torture you, rape you with foreign objects, give you enemas and force you to "hold it" longer than you possibly can, etc, etc (really, watch the movie, it's very powerful), fine.. go ahead.. But I won't have any problem with CPS removing a child from that kind of home.. Sorry.. DNA doesn't override the REALITY that a child like that needs to be GONE from that kind of situation..

That is not to say that some mental disorders can be cured, gotten under control, or whatver.. but the child has a right to be protected as long as their parent's are a danger to them..

chelsea s

You are right, that is a fallacious argument. Because a fetus is not cognitively capable of making a decision.

Marie C

I totally agree with you, Carnie. None of us had a choice about the families into which we were born and/or raised. Life happens. There are children who were raised in their birth families who "fell through the cracks," and no one noticed they were being abused until it was far too late. There are children who were adopted into incapable families and went through hell.

By the same token, there are happy children raised in wonderful birthfamilies AND adoptive families.

The whole point is that there are too many people focused on the past. The past cannot be changed. What's done is done. Let go of it, and look toward the future. That is something people have MUCH more control of than the past.

Sophie

They never get a choice and so many are murdered before they even see the light of day!

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If there trying to adopt, they should be happy with getting a baby, and usually are not very picky, so im not sure what ur asking

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