Is this human trafficking?

Jennifer L

Yes. Absolutely. And they should get prosecuted for it.

It doesn't matter what their motivations were. There is a process for international adoption and respect for the laws of the country is paramount.

It is obvious they knew they were committing a crime. They forged documents in order to obtain a visa to bring the children to the states. I have no idea how they intended to get US citizenship for the children, or even if they had thought that far ahead. The lengths they went to makes me wonder if their purpose was as noble as they claim it to be.

So yes, it's human trafficking. Without a doubt. I hope they like Egyptian prison.

Flying Monkey #073177

Thank god! Finally a country is willing to recognize that a falsified birth certificate should be illegal!

This is definitely human trafficking. They worked directly with an orphanage, not an agency. Without an agency I will assume they had no homestudy and nobody taking care of the legal aspects. Unless the banker moonlights as a lawyer. They forged documents to make it appear they had given birth to the children and tried to get them passports as American citizens. Not one legal thing took place. Two women in their forties wouldn't be so careless. This was planned and calculated.

Lori A

If it's not trafficking, then it's kidnapping. They knew exactly what they were doing, they lied about their relationship with the child.

I'm beginning to wonder, since falsifying documents is no big deal, I think I will check into changing my birth certificate. I'd like to be younger, maybe older, so I can catch social security while there still is some. I've never really liked my first name, lord knows I could have used a different last name, and I think I might like to have movie stars for parents.

celtic.piskie

Yes.

They carefully thought, planned, and executed their desires to ILLEGALLY remove a person, without their consent, to another country.

It's all illegal, and it's all about them.

If it's illegal, where is the thought of the well-being for the children?

Where is the home study, the counseling, the advocates for the child's interest?

Nowhere.

They wanted it, they couldn't have it, so they proceeded to get it illegally.

AKA child stealing, AKA human trafficking.

Heather B

They paid for the children (oh sorry, made a 'donation' ), were attempting to take children out of the country using false documents and then attempted to 'play dumb'

I can't believe anyone would defend these actions. They knew exactly what they were doing

May they rot in jail

23 year old texas female married

Sounds like human trafficking to me. They know the laws of Egypt that it is clearly illegal to adopt children from there, they hired doctors to falsify a legal document, and while the First couple didn't pay any money to receive a child. The second woman did. Donating another word for buying.

It is about time people start seeing the truth. If it is illegal to adopt from a country making fake birth certificates shows you that you intentionally committed a crime. (Just wish the US sees it that ways.)

C Wood

It sounds like they have passed laws defining adoption as human trafficking. If this is so, then in their country it is legally human trafficking.

What bothers me about this case is the fact that these couples chose to try to adopt children from a country that does not recognize adoption. That's just plain foolish, and it also shows a lack of respect for their laws.
cw

Serenity71

If adoption isn't recognised and they used illegal means to try and take their children out of the country than its boarder line trafficking at least. (A few shades of grey in there since they weren't out to profit from the 'adoption' of the children.) They defied the countries laws relating to adoption totally. Thats what got to me. Why do people think they can do that without consequences if they're caught.

The only time I've felt sympathy for people in situations like this is through missunderstandings.(IE they didn't lie like taht couple did and try to pass themselves off as the natural parents.) Or they went through all the right channels did it all legit according to their own countries laws and the Hague convention and yet someone outside of it all lied about the childrens background and how the ended up in the orphanage.

Good on the Egyptian presidents wife for taking a stand on human trafficking.

(I have only what you posted to work with in answering the question.)

cantstopLinnyG

Yes.

"I came to realize what an insidious crime this was and how it was just really built on profit. On not only low morals, on no morals at all," she said.

I think everyone who realizes International Adoption IS human trafficking has just found a new spokesperson in Suzanne Mubarak AND a new slogan.

Holt probably has a voodoo doll made in her image already.

eta*** to expand on what one poster said...ALL adoptee's have amended birth certificates that say our adoptive parents gave birth to us! We feel the same way! Its a "legal lie" that we deal with the day our adoption becomes legal.

eta** I beg to differ- MOST adoptees are forced into servitude. Spoken like an IA ap. Laughable.

Independ"ant"

Absolutely but you will have people try to minimize it because they can relate to Paps desire for little baby commodities.

Where have we heard this before?...................."Both couples insist they had no idea what they were doing was illegal".

I think the book should be thrown at them. Paps need to start being held accountable for their participation.

kateiskate

It TOTALLY is!

And people wonder why we think IA is wrong and corrupt?

stompermc

The case would seem to be as much about morality as legality, similar to the drug laws in our country. If the women indeed knew they were violating laws, they should be prosecuted, regardless of how well-intentioned they may have been. I would hope they would be shown some leniency in sentencing however, much as if they were drug users rather than dealers, to complete the comparison.

Sophie

I think it was an illegal adoption possibly human trafficking, yes... definitely if they had succeeded in bringing the child across borders. If Egypt does not allow adoptions why did these people they could do it? Plus the the birthcertificates actually said they GAVE BIRTH to the children. That could or could not be known by the adoptive parents due to the language differences... but it all sounds fishy to me.

kitta

Suzanne Mubarek has the right idea..a big black cage is appropriate shame for baby-stealers.

The US adoption industry needs such a wake-up call.

My child was stolen during the BSE. I sure didn't intend for him to be raised by strangers, nor for him to have a fake "birth certificate." There is a stranger-woman's name on it with all of the medical facts that belong to my son and to me.

False birth certificates...I have a copy of the forged document myself. I am glad I managed to get a copy of it. It is proof of the crime...legalized kidnapping.

Legally speaking, yes. But in actuality, probably not. These famlies, however are f'ing idoits--and should be jailed for it. They've broken both Egyptian and American laws. This wasn't a breach of some minor technical law, this was ADOPTION IS ILLEGAL....so why, when there are so many countries with orphans where adoption is legal did they need to go to Egypt?!!

My sister is adopted, and I plan on adopting children myself when I'm older, but I tell ya, it should have been a HUGE red flag for them that they'd need to forge birth certificates in order to get the kids out. THAT'S what makes it look like human trafficking and not an act of "love".

grapesgum

According to the United Nations definition, it was not human trafficking.

It is kidnapping though - "The crime of unlawfully seizing and carrying away a person by force or Fraud, or seizing and detaining a person against his or her will with an intent to carry that person away at a later time." Falsifying a birth certificate is fraud.

CNN: "To their defenders, all they were trying to do was provide orphans with a better chance in life."

Yes, that's what they all say.

CNN: "According to their attorneys, the documents they presented included birth certificates and certificates signed by doctors stating they were the natural mothers."

Duh, they knowingly lied to officials and now are surprised that their new accommodations are a cage?

Americans have been getting away with this crap for so long (in the US and abroad), they think it is normal (even noble) behavior to lie and make payoffs to get what they want.

I hope the nun was put in a cage too. Will the catholic church ever be able to get over its interfering ways and stop their collusion with coerced adoptions???

monkeykitty83

Given they were using falsified government documents to attempt to remove children from the country illegally, yes. The children are being treated as commodities.

There's no way to explain this away as a mistake or misunderstanding. Obviously these people knew they didn't give birth to the children, and the fact they had documents falsified indicates they knew what they were doing was against the law.

I'm sure their motivation, as they said, was to try to provide a home for children from an orphanage. But that isn't their choice to make. Egypt has a right to decide how it will handle adoptions. Americans don't get to make that choice for the Egyptians against their will.

There are plenty of other children in the world who need homes who are actually available for adoption and waiting for families, including tens of thousands of children right in the United States, so I admit I don't have sympathy for people who break the law to acquire children elsewhere, even if their motivation is to provide a loving home. There is no excuse for resorting to illegal adoption and covert transportation of children across international borders.

Randy B

What they did, in my opinion, is illegal both in Egypt and the US but I certainly don't think it's human trafficking. Any definition I've seen for human trafficking, including what is spelled out under Canadian law, speaks of it being the recruitment, transportation, harbouring, or receipt of human beings for the purposes of slavery, forced labor and servitude. I doubt that was the intention of these families.

Shanna

human trafficking? NOBODY here can say since we dont know these people.

Some people are just too desperate to get kids.others do traffic.

these people are idiots for what they did.

red elephants

I don't think it is. They did something illegal (since adoption isn't legal there) but I wouldn't consider it human trafficking. From reading the article their intent/purpose was not forced labor, slavery or servitude but to give a child a home outside of an orphanage. I guess an argument could be made if they had been sold by their families or the orphanage profited a great deal.

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