Have you noticed how the pro-amnesty crowd will never discuss the economics in terms of NET benefit?

Ali Alexander

Sieg wrote:"Actually, that seems to be central to the argument. Yes, you're basically forgiving people for breaking the law, but you're gaining a large crowd of new taxpayers who are no longer part of an illegal group that often associates itself with drugs, weapons, and human smuggling.

Really, the best approach is to simplify the guest worker program. Tag those guys and tax em. Nobody else wants to move pipe for $2/hour in the summer heat in a potato field full of rattlesnakes."
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There's a difference between filing a tax return and actually being a NET TAXPAYER. For example, a tax preparer in Colorado prepared tax returns for 1300 illegal aliens who were claiming the Earned Income Tax Credit which they are not legally entitled to. The EITC means that they're getting back MORE than they ever paid in. Legalization wouldn't change that. They're generally simply too unskilled and too uneducated to ever move out of the working poor, which means that those of us who are actually net payers of taxes subsidize them. Furthermore, by having large families, they additionally strain our taxpayer-funded healthcare and education systems. There's a reason that California schools are going down the tubes and a large part of that reason is that the illegal alien parents who live in those school districts don't pay nearly enough to cover the costs of a decent education for their kids. Oh, yes. Roughly 30% of the households that receive welfare in CA are headed by illegal aliens who collect it on behalf of their U.S. born kids. Not to mention, a column by Robert Samuelson (Washington Post, Sept. 5, 2007) based on Census data, shows that most of the increase in poverty in this country between 1996 and 2006 is due to the addition of 3 million Hispanics living in poverty (no doubt due in large part to the 1986 amnesty). Then, there's the recent report showing 1 in 5 "American" children living in poverty, although most of these articles ignore the fact that again a large part of that increase is because of a rise in the number of Hispanic kids living in poverty. And lest you claim that legalization would change that--the only thing it would do is give legalized illegal aliens more access to welfare programs than they have now. The sheer numbers of unskilled, uneducated workers competing for jobs is primarily what keeps wages down, NOT legal status. And if we continued to have an inflow of illegal aliens, they, too, would drive wages down.

By the way, try finding some "studies" that aren't produced by vested interests such as the Center for American Progress or the American Immigration Council.

Oh, and Chris, think for a minute. That 15% increase the report you quote mentions may sound like big bucks but it's not. When you start out earning at or below minimum wage, 15% won't move you out of poverty. This 15% was spread over MANY years, too. Furthermore, it's not stated in REAL dollars which is important to allow for the effects of inflation. And El Guapo, I've said it before but I'll point it out again--$1.5 Trillion spread over 10 years is TRIVIAL in an economy that will be worth $144 Trillion over those same 10 years. It's basically a rounding error. Furthermore, if this were a legitimate study, there would be mention of the confidence interval, since this is at best an ESTIMATE. The authors should offer a high and a low range. Since this report was authored for a specific purpose, to justify amnesty, we can bet that the authors ARE offering the high end of the range, which still makes it no more than rounding error in our $14 Trillion a year economy. The use of the 10-year timeframe also reminds me of Bush's trick with the budget, in which the
NEGATIVE effects didn't show up until after the timeframe used to present the budget figures.

And Akabin, you obviously never had an economics class, or if you did, you were asleep during it. Illegal aliens displace Americans not only from jobs, but from paying taxes and from consumption as well. We have 15 million plus workers out of work, while 5-7 million illegal aliens are working and depressing wages as well. Remove 5-7 million illegal aliens from jobs, put 5-7 million Americans back to work, and the only thing that will happen is that Americans will again be able to pay their mortgages and buy more goods and services.

ChrisT

You're wrong! they do all the time, but you just bash everything they say, when they are facts they're using.

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The Economic Boost of Legalization

As President Obama moves to put immigration reform on the table, questions have emerged about his timing. But the more the nation delays introducing a path to legalization for the undocumented immigrants here, the longer we are without a critical foothold towards economic recovery.

Researchers point to the effects of prior immigration reform in 1986. Then, the Immigration Reform and Control Act (IRCA) helped transition many undocumented workers out of an underground status. In the years following the Act, these workers saw their average hourly wages increase by 15 percent. Higher wages generated more city, state and federal tax revenue and more purchasing of goods and services, which created more jobs. This, during the recession of the late 1980â€™s and early 1990â€™s.
http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=340a476a030b7988d80795d2dee60059

El Guapo

Tony is right.
Do you mean stuff like this? I get these links from rights activists, I don't think there's such a crowd as "Pro-Amnesty".

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/01/07/immigration.economy/index.html?section=cnn_latest
Legalizing unauthorized immigrants would help economy, study says

Washington (CNN) -- Legalization of the more than 11 million unauthorized immigrants in the United States would raise wages, increase consumption, create jobs and generate more tax revenue, two policy institutes say in a joint report Thursday.

The report by the Center for American Progress and the American Immigration Council estimates that "comprehensive immigration reform that legalizes currently unauthorized immigrants and creates flexible legal limits on future immigration" would yield at least $1.5 trillion in added U.S. gross domestic product over a 10-year period.

No illegals Nate

I notice they never talk about the crimes. Illegals are always breaking more laws, if that was me, you can be sure, I would be sitting behind bars.

liberals sequestered from truth

Their take is illegals contribute to the USA.maby they do a little but they take 1000 times more then they give,

greasytony

We do all the time. But you seem to ignore the fact that illegals do really contribute to the USA.

Akabln

We discuss them, but the Anti immigrant crowd is economically ignorant and don't realize the harm that removing those who buy services and goods will do to our economic base.

Mother Hubbard

I will.
The net benefit of not repelling a population by force is
the moral high ground.
Why should Israelis occupy the lands they abandoned for over 2,000 years
when the descendants of the inhabitants of America
who fled the Mexican War and The Indian Removal Wars
fought by the USA for the purpose of removing them
172 years ago and sooner have no claim to cross the US border to work?

And when you let corporations cross the border to work
you should let people cross the border to work.
Otherwise it's free trade for corporations only.

Justice promotes peace.
Injustice is dangerous and expensive to police - like your border!

sieg6529

Actually, that seems to be central to the argument. Yes, you're basically forgiving people for breaking the law, but you're gaining a large crowd of new taxpayers who are no longer part of an illegal group that often associates itself with drugs, weapons, and human smuggling.

Really, the best approach is to simplify the guest worker program. Tag those guys and tax em. Nobody else wants to move pipe for $2/hour in the summer heat in a potato field full of rattlesnakes.

Forget War Buy More

Well, because the economic affects are actually difficult to describe to people. Immigration has a small positive effect on economies, but most people find the data difficult to comprehend.

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