Is it me, or is the whole "because they're illegal" argument WEAK?

Siervocal

Yeah, it's an argument that basically tells me "I have no stronger argument so I will end the discussion with this one." I agree with you.

smilindave1

It's you. According to your way of thinking we should just throw open the borders and let anyone who wants to come here and live without any checks or balances as to who they are or what they will do. No other country on this planet does that!

kysteelgirl

from your text I can tell you don't have a clue....tell me in 5 years what is so great about letting these illegal aliens continue to rape middle-class American taxpayers.....

bigsey93brady12

Illegals should get thrown out because they DO NOT BELONG HERE!!!! Their very being here is illegal, and I have no respect for a Spanish-speaker with no skills sneaking in to my country and mooching off of welfare. If you want to get in, do it legally.

sway_26

OK, can i go steal someone's car just because I want a better one?

onefivejesus

Then would any law be weak argument? think about it. laws are for a reason.

Yukaza

Mexico is NOT a poor country. By sending its teeming masses to our country, that status keeps on rising. Mexico has more resources per square mile than the U.S. and plenty of money to take care of its own people. Why should the taxpayers of this country subsidize Mexico's corruption?

Illegal aliens are NOT necessarily coming here to work. 33 percent of our prison population is now comprised of non-citizens. Plus, 36 to 42 percent of illegal aliens are on welfare. So, for a good proportion of these people, the American dream is crime and welfare, not coming here to work.

Illegal aliens are not doing work Americans won't do. What jobs won't Americans do? In most states, Americans still clean their own houses, do their own landscaping, clean hotel rooms, work in restaurants and fast food places, paint houses, DO CONSTRUCTION WORK, work in airports, etc. - just like we have the past 200 years before "our" government allowed these people to invade our country. There are 18 million Americans who cannot find a job, so illegal aliens who are coming here to work do so at peril to American workers.

Illegal aliens absolutely do not contribute more than they cost. Certainly the millions in prison and on welfare aren't contributing a dime to our economy, and the ones who are working often are paid in cash with no deductions for taxes at all. The ones who use fraudulent social security numbers and qualify to pay taxes and social security have so many deductions for dependents that they pay little if any taxes. The economy does NOT depend on illegal aliens. Sure, greedy CEOs (making $50 to $150 MILLION a year) and business owners depend on illegal aliens, The only thing illegal aliens are contributing to is the collapse of our economy and making the rich richer.

Without illegal aliens, the price of agricultural products and other goods and services will NOT soar. The definitive study on this subject is the University of Iowa's "How Much Is That Tomato?" The study concludes that 'since labor is such a small component of the end-price of agricultural products (which includes price to the growers, transportation costs, processing /storage costs, grocers' profit, etc.), using minimum wage workers instead of illegal aliens would increase prices of agricultural products by approximately 3 percent in the summer and 4 percent in the winter ... hardly the making of $10 heads of lettuce, $25 hamburgers, $1,000 per night Days Inn hotel rooms like the pro-illegal alien lobby claims.

It's CEOs and business owners who benefit from taxpayer subsidies for their illegal alien workers. The Big Three automakers say they moved so many jobs to Mexico because their labor costs are 80 percent less than in America. Anybody notice the price of new cars spiraling downward under NAFTA?

So, before you believe the prevalent pack of lies perpetuated by the illegal alien lobby, which makes billions off this government-sanctioned criminal activity.read facts not emotions.

And its ILLEGAL too

luvbean_xo

So according to you we should ignore our laws, the laws implemented to protect you and me. While we're at it why don't we wave a big white flag and allow anybody to come in? See how long it takes until we have another 9/11. To compare illegal aliens crossing our borders to slavery and abortion doesn't even compare and is illogical. Overall your arguments pro-illegal immigration are weak and irrelevant. Besides, why does every other country have the rights to protect their borders, yet when America does it we're being unfair and uncivil? Did I miss something? Why should people who aren't even American citizens have more rights and liberities than citizens? I'm so sick of the PC bull!

suspendor

Just because some laws are unjust doesn't make them ALL weak. They're illegal because they are cheating everyone. They are 'jumping ahead in line' ahead of legal immigrants. They don't pay their taxes, they use resources without paying for them, and they lower the going rate for legal wage earners.

They are called illegal for a reason.

jake

So what is so wrong with coming here legally. Immigrants are very welcome here, but illegal immigrants never have been, and never will be, and I could care less if your, white, brown, black, red, green, or change color every day, if your not here legally, get out of my country.

Jeffery C

So do you not respect the law?

If any person is free to break any law they disagree with, then there is no law.

How many illegals do you think the USA should allow in? All of the 6 billion in the other countries that want to come?

It is not a weak argument. The weakness is in the minds of those who do not think things through.

[><] Rebel

I think most people are just scared and I think they have every reason to be. Here's the bottom line: Mexico is a third world country, then Mexicans are third world people (unskilled, un-educated, at times, un-healthy, and dirt poor). The US is struggling under it's own people's weight with all the entitlement programs it offers (entitlement = welfare). We are running massive amounts of debt. How will adding millions of third world immigrants help us? It won't and will be the drain that will cripple the economy for once and for all unless we stop offering them welfare benefits. Also, there was a big difference between the first waves of immigrants to this country, we assimilated. Mexicans don't want to and feel no need to. I don't want my home town to turn into a northern version of a small Mexican town because it got taken over by thousands of immigrants working in the fields.

elmjunburke

You seem to be saying that it's okay to do anything illegal. Sneaking into a foreign country is illegal. It's against the law. There is no country in the world that does not have laws against people sneaking in without the necessary permits. The point is not WEAK, it's common sense, and the law.
Those sneaking in are not SOMEHOW "illegal" , they're completely illegal. Would it be "illegal" to rob a bank? Should rapeists be considered "illegal" so they're okay ?
Law breakers should never be accepted. Obey the law, and enjoy the country and all that it has to offer. Break the law, and suffer the consiquences.

DAR

It is shorthand, not weak. It stands for 'the laws are there for a reason' (to protect our schools, services, open spaces and to allow us to pick our own cultural destiny, thank you very much) and they are breaking them, so it is not us who have to justify OUR position. OUR position is the one that drove policy to begin with.

We subsidize services like education for poor people, and we have every right to say how many we want to subsidize. We have no interest in becoming an ongoing subsidy to business that wants to pay poverty level wages that can only make ends meet if the worker drawn here for jobs and services, takes those services WE pay for or lives in standards we find unacceptable.

Our schools are failing.

"Because it is illegal" says all of that.

Team Chief

It's you.

Slavery has always been wrong, and at one time it was legal. Illegal immigrants will ALWAYS be illegal and will ALWAYS be wrong.

There were no "Patriot" saints - or saints of any kind - running or participating in the Underground Railroad. And by the way, smuggling slaves out of the South was illegal, although Lincoln's government never sought to prosecute anyone for it.

Lastly, abortion being murder is your opinion, not necessarily a fact. That debate is endless, but until it does end, what you said is nothing more than an opinion.

Like I said...it's you.

kd s

A little tidbit of info for ya:

Illegal aliens murder 12 Americans daily.
Most Americans have no idea more of their fellow citizens â€“
men, women and children â€“ were murdered this year by illegal
aliens than the combined death toll of U.S. troops in Iraq and
Afghanistan since those military campaigns began.

Twelve Americans are murdered every day by illegal aliens,
according to statistics released by Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa.

If those numbers are correct, it translates to 4,380 Americans
murdered annually by illegal aliens. That's 21,900 since Sept. 11, 2001.

Crazybird

You can change laws without breaking them. I don't agree with every law on the books either. But I have to obey them. Citizens helped change those laws about slavery. Slaves didn't disrupt society and break laws to have them chaged. Not all slaves were mistreated and some didn't want to be free. Others were horribly abused. America didn't invent slavery.....it's been going on since the beginning of time. But we did change the laws. I'm pro-choice. Not as a birth control means for foolish behavior....but for rape, incest and health reasons. Each issue has 2 sides. The problem I see with illegal immigration is there is nothing but 100% amnesty and a continued demand to "ignore" the other crimes they are commiting and a continued list of "freebies" they demand for "their" people and NOTHING about enforcing any laws or even a push to assimilate. There's no "compromise" to work with. No country on the face of this earth has a successful open borders situation. None. There's a massive global problem with illegal immigration though. Russia is now cracking down too. It is destroying the countries they are running too because there is no limit or means to control anything without "offending" someone. It's give and take and it seems there's a whole lot of taking and not enough giving. I mean we have one of the most liberal immigration systems as it is.....I mean really....load up the illegals and go in mass to any country on this globe and see if they wouldn't be saying the same thing. It's a fine balance to keep things a float and this has this boat sinking.

Sam Fisher

It's not you, or the "because they're illegal" argument.

You've asked the wrong question.

How do we, as a country, deal with the influx of illegal aliens (undocumented workers, whatever you want to call them) ?

There are many facets to this debate, people on both sides of the "fence" (pun intended) are driven by fear, racism, anger. I live in San Diego, I am in direct contact with this issue. I propose three ideas that should be acceptable to all parties.

1. Change US law to reflect that if a child is born in the US, they do NOT automatically receive US citizenship & all the rights & benefits thereof. If the mother is not in the country legally (Visa, resident alien, refugee status, etc.) then the child is a citizen of whatever country parent is from. To receive Social Security, Medicare, etc. one must be a citizen. As a firefighter, I think it would be unethical & immoral to deny emergency medical care to anyone, but once the emergency is over, kindly return to your country, you are welcome back anytime you have proper documentation.

2. Acknowledge that there are in fact, jobs that Americans do not want to do. Here in California it is largely agricultural workers - fruit pickers etc. The "migrant workers" who come here to take those jobs are just people looking to make an honest living & provide for their family. My suggestion is to bring back a modern version of the Bracero Progam. With the technology available we could set up a few "Work Centers" (Border towns would be the obvious choice) people from other countries (but, let's be honest, mostly Mexicans) would come, get documented (fingerprinted, DNA sample, photo ID etc) employers could list their needs, a simple matching process would occur, the workers could even contribute a nominal fee from their earnings to pay for basic healthcare while they are here. All above board, not taking jobs from Americans, not outsourcing. This leads to my third idea.

3. The real source of illegal immigration is that businesses hire illegal aliens. Walmart was busted not too long ago, here in San Diego, the illegals line up at Home Depot to get construction helpers jobs, do you think the contractor who needs a day laborer asks for a green card? Create financial penalties so great, that a business owner simply could not afford to get caught. Tier the penalty based on the tax returns of the business, the bigger the company, the bigger the fine. I predict you'd see a huge drop in illegal border crossing.

That's my 2Â¢.

Ray H

All you .

bosgrove

are you 10.....because you obviously dont pay taxes sympathizer

zero

What is really weak is the fact most illegal's have no intention of becoming a citizen. Their intention is to live within our country and take advantage of a life that only citizen's should have. They claim to love this country yet don't want to become a citizen. They don't want to pay taxes nor do they want to become an active citizen within this country. They want the American dream without becoming an American. I agree that we all should be proud of our heritage. But to take advantage of American tax payers with no intentions of becoming a tax payer yourself is cowardess. It's rediculous and pathetic. If any immigrant desires to become a citizen I think it is great. I feel that every person deserves to live life as American's do as we all immigrated here. But every person draining the life/money out of our government must step up and become a contributing citizen of this country or otherwise go back home.
Can you tell me why most Mexican women cross the border just to have babies? Of course there child will be a citizen. Of course our government will pay for their child's birth. Of course they will get benefits for that child, especially if there are health problems. How many American women's births are paid by the government? Do you have any idea how many American's are homeless in America? You wouldn't agree that America's money should benefit American's? I mean America already shells out enough foreign aid. So when does America start taking care of American's???
Your points on slavery and abortion really are mute. We could sit here all day playing this game. Most people with common sense recognize that this country has major problems. It is up to American citizen's to correct problems as best as we can through votes. It would be ironic that an illegal would gripe about America when he could simply become an American and take part responsiblity is repairing our problems by voting for what they believe in. This is a country for the people and by the people. So either join us or leave us.

Prince Thom

Take a deep breath, Chuck.
Now, listen very carefully, "You're an Idiot."

Dizney

Those that don't think ILLEGAL aliens are a problem are weak

TubeDude

They are just committing the felonies that Americans will not do and stealing the cars Americans won't steal.

Illegal means criminal. Look it up.

Anne A

Considering throughout history we have given illegals amnesty it is weak. I agree with you, except about the abortion comment.

She how mad people get though!? A bit freaky I'd say. I find so much of the stats people give unfathomably hard to believe. 12 Americans per day killed by an 'illegal' - that is just a bizarre thing to even make up. And katsulove always has a unique and interesting twist to things. Perceptions are not always factual.
What I find even more interesting is that we are only talking about the illegal Mexicans - or Latin Americans. White skinned 'illegals' are apparently not on any ones radar. Then agian, they arent killing 12 citizens per day...

J Q Public

yes. to add to it, the pro illegal/change are using the political system to attempt change. the anti illegal people are mostly spreading hate and fear. the american political system is in place to help change things a majority don't agree with. the anti illegals should try using it. it seems the pro illegals know the system better

Ketchup Boy

Yes, very weak argument...

ramshi

Very logical points. I am totally with you. There are many who see your point of view and so are supporting illegals. And then there are those, who are really against illegals but need them for cheap labor and so support them. It is only those few who incorrectly feel that illegals are stealing jobs and benefits who oppose it.

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