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Bear
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First of all I would like to say that I acknowledge that the death of this man was tragic and that terrible mistakes were made which led to his death.
This came at a time when the state of alert was at an all time high. We had already been subjected to a new breed of terrorist in the UK and only the previous day had been subject to failed bomb attempts.
The senior commanders are ultimately to blame for the death of this man. They had overall control of this incident. It does not help them however if the surveillance carried out was not as good as it should have been. After all they have to make decisions based on what they know and believe. They then have to live with that decision be it good or bad.
In terms of the firearms officers they also have to carry out lawful orders. They would have been given clear instructions as to what was required. We cannot deal with terrorists like normal members of the public. Shout a challenge at a terrorist and is he/she going to give themselves up.... no, they are going to blow themselves up taking anyone nearby with them. They have immediate access to the detonator. Shooting them at close range and without warning is the only way of preventing the device going off. More than one shot would be required to prevent any chance of detonation. This would account for the head shots as opposed to the normal body shot.
Yes I understand that this man was not a terrorist but the officers did not know that. They were led to believe that he was. What would the public have said if this man had been a terrorist and had killed innocent men, women and children. Would it have been "Police followed terrorist and failed to take action." There would have been an even bigger outcry.
Yes, make no bones about it the police are to blame, but likewise so are the terrorists who live in this country and preach their hate. They were the ones that killed 52 innocent people and injured hundreds more. They were the ones that instigated the way we should deal with that kind of threat. |
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James M
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Incompetence, but this could be mitigated due to the pressure and tension in London that month. However, what I find despicable is the cover up by the police that followed. The lies, the destruction of the CCTV tape, all of it is perverting the course of justice and they should have been arrested. |
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francis f
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hang on the man ran away from uniformed armed response police who were on high alert after the bombings and was subsiquently killed for failing to stop on the suspicion of terrorism, mmm let me think how about the police were doing the job we pay them to do!!!!
im quite sure they would of done exactly the same in his country if it the roles were reversed and it had been a brit so stop whinging and let the police get on with the job at hand. |
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grodno
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You can guarantee a cover up from the trigger happy police, just don't go round carrying a table leg or childs water pistol,or look vaguely Mediterranean, it could prove fatal. |
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ladywoodboy
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What I want to know is , who was the man interviewed on the TV news as a witness, he was also featured in the following days newspapers, he stated that Jean Paul rushed into the carriage as if trying to get away and was seized by the police!, who was he? |
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Answer Me!
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This was an awful episode - no-one can be proud of their actions on that day.
I do think his parents should just drop it though. They are brought over here often at our expense and I think its only a matter of time before they are suing the police. There is money in such an action. It wouldn't happen at home in Brazil though, where executions of dozens of street people are almost a daily occurrence - and no-one does anything.
Nothing will bring him back. As someone who has just suffered a bereavment - you have to move on. Why make your life more miserable than it already is? |
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Stephen A
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Look , the Police did NOT tell lies , they just forgot to tell the truth
As for calling the police incompetent , this might be your view , others just think they are useless
And as for anyone being held to account , forget it , that's never going to happen , dispite everything the police are there to inforce the law , and as the legal system is corrupt , they will not allow the police to take a fall for there own failings |
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derek m
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The poice are only human and the stress of trying to stop another would be bomber on the underground must be debillitating. Please do not stop another police officer from pulling the trigger even if there is only a 5% chance that they are right.
The problem is as I see it it took more than ONE SHOT |
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Godwas1ofU$
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What do you expect from any government. They ant lea ring from there mistakes in the 70's with the IRA. They will always cover up sh## Its easier for them to do so then tell the trough at the time. power to the people. That's what they are afraid of. Look at the war in Iraq they lied trough there teeth and one politician killed him self over it. His blood will always be on Blair's hands. |
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swilliams1106
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I think you will find that corruption is also a word to be associated with this farce. Undoubtedly, the Police were incompetant but why does everyone assume they are gonna be any different from any other organisation? The NHS shields itself under a blanket of beaurocracy and lies and, like the Police, have the piss poor government to cover for them.
This country is more interested in doing what they think is right rather than doing what is right. The police should just hold their hands up to this one and eat humble pie rather than make excuses and then rely on the government to defend them.
Tony Blairs Britain consists of cover-up's, red tape and ridiculous little laws that mean nothing.
What we have learnt from this is that an innocent man died because of this countries obsession with terrorism which is down to the fact that Tony Blair decided to get into bed with that idiot George Bush.
Do the government or Police care that they have destroyed the life of a hard working, innocent, individual? I don't think they do, and this is what we should be remembering; the fact that we are small little pawns who can be moved around the board of life to generate tax, upon tax, upon tax.
The government are secretly pleased when someone dies at 59 because they haven't got to fork out for a pension. As far as this young Brazilian was concerned the government aren't bothered because they believed he would move back to Brazil once he had earnt a crust and therefore pay his taxes in South America. |
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bert
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I think that you are referring to the MURDER of Jean Charles DeMenenzes by incompetent, inadequately trained British police officers |
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mike h
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Tell you what, why don't all the members of the anti terrorist squads, the police, the armed response units and the military all just hand their sidearms in and go home?
They obviously can't do their jobs withouyt some liberal idiot calling them murderers and criminals.
So why don't they leave all the terrorists and criminal scum to wreak as much havok as they want on your liberal society. Anyone can walk into a public place with a gun and just let off a few rounds now, there is noone to stop them. How about terrorists who just decide to walk around freely with as many explosives/dirty bombs/bio weapons as they like? Oh wait, there is noone to stop them now either.
Idiot. |
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inthedark
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Now this started as a good question and I pretty much agree with the Guy asking it but it turned in to a tirade of abuse against previous answerer's and it for me lost some of its powerful purpose. Sad that |
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brit_plod
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He ran away from armed police on a terror alert... he was being monitored and was a suspect... I'm not sure of your sources but he certainly wasn't sitting reading his paper!
I don't think it should have happened and I could never carry a gun myself, but put in the same position I would have done the same.
Also I think if you disagree with people answers to your questions then you've joined the wrong forum... |
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Rob Roy
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It amazes me that after two years and innumerable reports and enquiries discrediting the police version of events leading up to the de Menezes killing on the Tube train there are still people who profess to believe it !. It was interesting to see Red Ken jump to the defence of the Met Police. This from a man who for years denigrated the police at every opportunity. As is usual with police shootings that go wrong no one is ever to blame unless it's some poor police constable at the bottom of the chain. Like Pontious Pilate the senior officers wash their hands of responsibility and get promoted as well. |
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Steiner
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Pretty much "par" for the course. Did you really expect justice? |
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srracvuee
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I THINK THE POLICE HAVE TAKEN ENOUGH STICK OVER THIS AFFAIR SO WHY NOT DROP IT OR IS THERE A SMELL OF MONEY AROUND//AND OF COURSE IF THIS MAN HAD RETURNED HOME WHEN HIS WORK PERMIT EXPIRED IT WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED |
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glyntinmyeye
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Jean Charles DeMenenzes was a victim of the London Bombings as much as the other victims, Do not go after the Police for trying to defend the Capital, after all they are easy targets for anyone with a gripe. Written statements from witnesses to any event will contradict each other that is a fact. While we all hope the Truth will come out and it will. but the Truth is not helped by rants such as yours and spinning of little bits of information not the Whole. If you want to blame anyone for is death blame Radial Islam. |
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BARROWMAN
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Will knowing all the ins and outs of this tragic affair bring him back? Will prosecuting some policeman who acted rashly on inadequate intelligence help anyone? Why don't you use your energy to pursue the real killers in this world/ Their names are Osama Bin Laden, Tiny Blair, George Bush and many others who are responsible for killing thousands every day. |
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politicsguy
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Incompetence. From memory - and this is really from the week that it happened - the police had one spotter, who at the time that John Charles left the station went to take a leak by a tree. They had several chances at interception before he reached the station and did not take them; I know the are well as I used to live in Grantham Road, so I know that they could have stopped him before he made it to the tube.
The police did a misinformation campaign on him and they allowed the media to run away with the idea that he was wearing a big heavy coat in mid summer, had run into the station and vaulted the barrier; as you rightly say all untrue.
What the police (and military - don't let's forget they had people on the ground and involved in that operation on that day too) was inexcusable. Heads should roll. |
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prince_henry
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i wonder if Barrowman would feel the same if it had been his son,brother, father or someone he loved that day killed that day, some how i don't think so.
its easy to sweep it away when its someone else who has to pay the price, its easy to say it wont bring him back, but if we don't ask questions and understand how it happened how can we be sure it wont be Barrowman next time.
as i understand it we first heard that a man in a heavy coat had been shot, then it turns out that two men had hold of his arms at his side as a 3rd man shot him 7 times in the head.
at that point as the 3rd man aimed his gun at him, when he knew he had no bomb, when he knew he had nothing in his hands to trigger a bomb, why did he shoot him ?.
how can that be a accident |
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the boss
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Illegal immigrant. Knew what was going on. Innocent??? |
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shane l
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they were right to shoot, he shouldnt have ran. i would rather them take the shot than make a mistake and let someone blow up many more people. |
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hoovarted
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Well...Even if he was not guilty of anything on the day he was shot he was probably guilty of something, sometime so no biggy.
What's the problem? |
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The Patriot
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A tragic mistake.
Remember how we all felt at the time. The poice were in a situation where they were trailing a suspect who ran towards a train once challenged.
True, it could have been that he was running to catch the tube train that had arrived and not heard the challenge, but the police were not to know that.
Him being an illegal immigrant does not justify his death either. Nor does the fact that Brazillian police kill far, far more innocent people than the UK police do.
The policemen who killed him at point blank range did the job they were meant to. As far as they were concerned, the man they were going to kill had a bomb, and was in a place where if he set it off, he would have killed loads of innocent people. They needed to act. The error was with those who gave these men (who though that they were, and still would put themselves at risk, to save us the public) the wrong information.
The facts are that he did run, he was challenged and the killing did not take place after months of surveillance, but days.
It was wrong. I do feel for the family, and am sorry that an innocent man was killed, but it was tragic, not incompetent.
EDIT - ignoring the pathetic attempt at an insult, the cover up of the misinformation given about the shooting was wrong and should never be defended.
The cover up was not incompetence in action, but was a deliberate attempt to mislead. |
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