If a policeman stays inside at home while a brawl happens right outside his door. Is he justified for.....?

weezerlover94

Well, he could have done SOMETHING. Not just stand there. But, yeah, i guess if he was off duty....

stella

Of course he is NOT breaking the law. That is ridiculous!
No one would expect him to PUT HIS LIFE ON THE LINE and cope with the brawlers all by himself.
The other consideration is, if he is at his own home then he is more than likely OFF DUTY so he doesnt have to respond physically.
He would be given the same rights as every other normal citizen.
There is no law that states an off duty policeman needs to intervene in a brawl.
Of course you would think that he would call for backup from inside the house if the situation warranted it...

jellybeanchick

It's not so much retaliation, but not being prepared to respond to a situation like that. It's not very safe to try to break up a fight, unarmed, with no radio to call for backup. He or she would be justified in calling 911, and would definitely be justified to help anyone who got hurt.

Michael H

There is no requirement for an off duty officer to intervene. The responsibly thing to do of course is to call the incident in and ONLY intervene if life is in danger. Police dept. have a set of general orders that is a policy manual for that department. Many frown on officers off duty trying to handle a situation by themselves. When off duty, there is no immediate access to a radio and back-up. In the type of situation you stated it would be foolish for one officer alone to respond. An officer can't protect someone if he can't protect himself first. If he brought a weapon into the situation and was overpowered due to the large number of people, and lost his weapon, and someone was injured or killed, that officer would be criminally responsibly. He would also face a civil lawsuit.

buick

It wouldn't have been safe for him to respond visibly like that. The correct course of action is to call for backup via 911.

So either way, weather the police are required to respond or not, dialing 911 just like any other citizen is all that counts.

WonderingSam

Actually, in most states, police officers are never truly off duty. They are public servants and can be called upon at any time to enforce the laws of the state. However, with that said, there are other considerations where he would be right in not responding alone. He can do others no good if he becomes a casualty of the brawl. Also, some are under the mistaken thought that he would be unarmed because he is off duty. Police officers carry their weapons home with them and many carry a weapon even when off duty in their civilian attire. He might well stay inside for his own protection until other officers are able to assist. He might then be required to help other "on duty" officers with such things as identification of perpetrators, the physical arrest of persons involved, or other actions that the situation demands. One of the hardest things for people in public safety to do is to stand by when something is happening but this is often the best course of action until others arrive on the scene so that the situation can be contained with the least amount of force necessary to effect the arrest. In other words, if he tried to break up the fight on his own he may have to use an inordinate amount of force to accomplish the arrest which may be viewed as police brutality. I would not second guess his actions. He is trained to handle such situations and probably acted within the law and within his departments guidelines.

AlisonFox

He's not on duty, therefore, not breaking the law. He has no way to call for back-up, he has no weapon, he would be just like some average guy jumping into the middle of a fight. He doesn't even have his uniform on to appear authoritative.

Randy B

Lets look at this objectively. He's not on duty therefore he really has no obligation to act as a police officer. He is also not properly armed or identifiable as a police officer unless he happened to still be wearing his uniform after shift. If he gets involved in this case he is doing so as a private citizen since someone can only be charged with assaulting a peace officer if that peace officer is identifiable as such at the time.

If he was not prepared or properly armed to get involved he could end up getting injured and since the injury is not while he was on duty and acting in an official capacity the departments insurance would most likely not cover him for any injuries he may sustain. Also, if he is not on duty then he is liable for any injuries HE may cause while trying to break up the brawl.

Ultimately, there is no law that states that an off duty police officer must get involved in an incident such as this. The police act or code of conduct governs him/her while on duty and acting in an official capacity but not while off duty.

Morally however, as a citizen in the community he should do what he can do assist in dealing with the situation. If that is limited to making a 911 call and observing what goes on till help arrives then that is what he does. If he can do more then he should but he is not under any legal obligation I know of to do anything more.

cajundude1

He's off duty just like you and me. Would you be breaking the law by not intervening? Why would he? First he would call 911, size up the situation and make a judgment as to whether or not he could handle it. Being a hero is not a requirement. That's his call.

richard t

off duty.............should call 911..............anything more is heroism....

Lisa T (Stop BSL)

Although one would think they are responsible, if he is off duty should he go out and try to break up a fight where it turns into more than one on one. Also, I'm sure his children were in view of all of this. Who would want their kids to see their father be beat? Calling 911 and waiting for some back up would be the right thing to do.

Carl P

Can you really prove in a court of law that he knew there was a brawl outside his door? If not you can not accuse him / her of not doing their duty. May have been sleeping or listening to music with headsets on.

lkrschic77

By involving himself in the riot, the officer could be attacked or even killed. In a case like that its best to call 911. There is no law that states an officer is "On Call" when he or she is not at work.

Al Scusi

He is wise to stay back - that's one for calling colleagues in but not personal response.

Nora Explora

It is my understand that off duty police officers may use their discretion as to what they will get involved with. In any case they should call the incident in just as any other citizen should.

kdfirekat

He IS justified for not intervening personally.
He is NOT breaking the law.

Public Service personnel have a responsibility to their own personal safety first and foremost, even on duty. This is true for police, fire, ems personnel.

This is for the simple reason that one cannot do anyone else in the community any good if he or she is hurt in the process of trying to intervene in any given situation.

On-duty police personnel have the advantage of radio communication, weapons, backup, ...all of the resources necessary to properly handle a situation. Off-duty personnel do not. Putting himself in harm's way as one unarmed, off-duty individual would be ridiculous, and anyone who thinks he/she should has unreasonable, heroic expectations.

As am EMS healthcare provider, I do NOT enter any scene that sounds like it could possibly be a danger to me or to my partner. Period. We call for police backup, too. When they arrive, ON duty, if one responding officer sees a situation looking like it could get out of hand, no one acts until there are enough other officers on scene. It's simple safety for everyone involved.

If this isn't making sense to you, think of it this way: You know when you fly on a commercial airline, they always instruct you before the flight that, if there should be a loss of cabin pressure, always put your mask on first before assisting anyone else, even your children. Why do you think that is? It's very simple logic. If I try to assist a child with his/her mask before putting on my own, I may very well pass out before I even finish getting the child's on. However, if I put mine on first, I am in a position to do more good for more people. I can then assist a child and possibly more passengers with their masks and any other needs they may have.

It is the same with public service officials. If we are not safe, we cannot do the greatest amount of good for others. This applies while we are ON duty. Why in the world would we make the situation even worse while off duty and without resources.

totalhealthinterventions

As a police officer, he is a mandated reporter, so he has to report things that he sees on the job that deal with things like abuse or child neglect or suicide, but at home, he is a regular man, with regular fears about retaliation. There is a psychological concept that most people who see something going on, assume that someone else will take care of it so they don't have to. Maybe this is what he is doing. Also, are you sure that this man even saw anything going on outside? It could very well be that he was unaware of anything going on.

acedoll1985

Why you did not break it up? You saw what was happening or was it because you felt that it was not your duty to interfere or felt that you might get hurt. I am just asking a question like you are. Just because he is a policeman does not mean he have to interfere. He is in his own house and he could have been off duty. If he went outside to break up the fight he might have gotten hurt his self. The best thing he could have done was call the police and Identity his self as a policeman and reported what was happening. Policeman and policewomen have their districts they are assigned to. They do not have to get into every ones brawls. He is not breaking the law. They have a life too. If you feel he is and he should have intervene then call your local police station and ask your question. Sometimes we forget that the police have a life of their own, can get hurt or killed, get tired of people acting the fool and can not be involved in everything that goes on in their neighborhood or any where else as far as that is concern.

Trin for the win

If he is off duty, he is completely justified for not getting involved. Officers are trained to deal with many dangerous and tough situations while on duty. It may be that this officer didn't think this "brawl" was really that dangerous. The details of the incident aren't really defined here. I have to say, the way this says "not breaking it up for he fears his neighbors will maybe one day retaliate" it gives me the impression that you have decided this man is some sort of a coward. Chances are he already reads this disrespect towards him and wouldn't jump at helping in a situation he doesn't think is really that dangerous. I wouldn't jump to cater some one that disrespects me if I didn't have to and I would expect the same reaction from anyone else.

sailboatpuppy

The question is not reliably answered with such broad definitions, time-line, and speculation of probable behaviors of others. There's the lack of the officer's: duty status, awareness, statement and proof of action(s), and reasoning thereof.

piphop

He wasn't breaking the law. Now, if he was on duty and did nothing, then he should be reprimanded. An off duty policeman doesn't have to do his job at home. I don't go to my neighbor that is a hairdresser and expect her to do my hair in her home when she is off work. People don't take their kids and drop them off at their teacher's house on Saturday morning. People are people and we are all entitled to time away from our jobs.

B+

If you are on duty and don't help or interfer or call for backup, and you just let it be and leave, than yes you are accountable, could be suspended or fired. Could have serious consequences to it.

But if the officer is off duty and doesnot interfer, no accountability, because now he is not an officer but a member of the society and nothing more. Of course if they see something happening and call 911 and keep a watch on what is happening and when police does come they assist them and give them information as a witness, they are considered a good citizen and are respect by fellow workers, but its not like they get a pay raise or any special treatment. Off duty officer is just like you and me, they are not a police officers.

There have actually been cases where off duty police officers have interfered, and have been sued for assult, have been charged to cause or make the situation worse. Some have even been fired or suspended. And some police officers while trying to help others have died. In their uniform, they are police officers, people no matter what fears them, they have equipment to call for back up and are able to give information of the events taking place and also if the are injured or if due to some reason they do hit someone, they are on duty and are in some way protected. But off duty they are in danger and are even told that if they are off duty and see something, than call 911 and not interfer.

So no, an off duty officer by not interfering or doing anything is not breaking any law. No law says that if your a police officer than 24/7 be on duty, no one says if your a dish washer at work than be a dish washer 24/7, to wash dishes wherever they see, so why the same for police officers. No nothing like that, and even people in neighbourhoods can't blame them, they may be police officers but off duty they are like any citizen.

leggjesusfreak

If he is not on duty, like if he isn't working at the time, he is not oblicated to stop the fight. If he is he should try to stop it. By not doing anything why of duty, he could had of made a good decision, if one of the fighters had a gun or something that could harm him. And it isn't his place to stop it if he is no longer on duty.

Hope I helped God bless

handyclown

let him call for back up

"lysol"

Be glad he stayed inside, they got guns. the guy is off-duty, give 'em a break, settle it urself.

jon

we talked about this in law class and he is not breaking the law by not helping but the only thing he could be breaking is his morals. even if someone died or got seriously injured in that case he is not responsible because its his choice to do that not his assignment ;)

Ben

No he did not break the law.

EmiSaint

he is not breaking the law if he his OFF DUTY. He is not protected off duty and can not get help right away if needed while being off duty. Its better for him to call the police and not put himself in danger by being the good guy. I would be scared to do about the neighbors retaliating. An off duty officer getting in the middle of a fight off duty will eventually look like he is part of the problem.

dagger

even policemen deserve to rest. since he's off-duty, it's not his duty for the time being. :)

Chase R

if he wasn't on duty then he is an average citizen just like you.

is it your job to break up brawls when your not on the clock?

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