Should the USA ban torture in all cases?
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Should the USA ban torture in all cases?
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I know I'm firing a political warhead with this question, but please fully read my statement then comment.
I have always considered myself a liberal, but anymore I feel I am not nearly as far left as many are. One recent example is this "torture" debate that has been going on.
My understanding is that torture, in all of its forms, is now forbidden from use by our government and military. I watch debates on the issue, and it seems like some liberals I would have once respected are now just blindly accepting the idea and sticking to it, and it was this type of mindset that has always turned me off from Republicans! The liberal just sits there, and to any question they just answer "This is America, we do not torture!"
Now let me state my position. I strive for peace and compassion in my life, I would be the last person to start a fight or harm anyone, etc. Also, I believe in any human situation, there is never one catch-all answer - I believe we are human beings with intense reasoining and judgement capabilities and these should be used on a case-by-case basis - even when it comes to torture.
I do not believe that we should be torturing any suspect we have in custody at will, but still keep it as an option if needed in the most intense situations. Heres an example:
Let's say our government has found out that a group of terrorists based in Iraq have imported a nuke into the US. We believe it is in the vicinity of a major city, but we don't know exactly where. We've captured one of the terrorists from within the group, and he isn't talking.
Now, lets say you also live in this big city, where the suspected nuke is believed to be. Lets say the government has received information indicating the nuke is hidden in the downtown area of this city, where hundreds of thousands of people go to work and school everyday, including your family members.
Theres not enough time to evacuate the city, the nuke is already in the city somewhere. In this case, should we torture the person, by any means necessary, to make him tell us where exactly the nuke is, who is planning to denotate it, where are they, etc? Or would you give up the safety and potential elimination of hundreds of thousands of Americans in your town, including your own friends and family?
This is one intense scenario, please do not respond by saying this scenario is unlikely, I could write all day about various scenarios that I would consider "intense". But in such an "intense" situation, I believe that torture of course should be used. I feel if you are saying, no, still dont torture the terror suspect because we are America, you are saying you would not give up your respect for a foreign terrorist in exchange for thousands of American lives.
If you say still no torture, please justify.
Like I said, I consider myself Liberal, but still cant take the extreme side of "No torture, ever, in any situation".
Additional Details
I'm a bit relieved to see there are those of you below who are on the same page as me. I like the quote "I wont trade 5000 american lives for a wet enemy combatant". Exactly - while we shouldn't just torture at random, we should do it where we can reasonably determine it to be very likely to be beneficial to the security of american lives.
For the people who scream "no torture" - if you were in your home, and a burglar broke in to your house and you had snuck up behind him with a baseball bat, would you not swing when you had the chance so as not to cause any anguish to this burglar, because MAYBE he wasn't really going to hurt anyone!"
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Val
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It was outlawed back in the dark ages. And the dark ages is where it belongs. It is ridiculous to expect truth to come from unimaginable pain. People will tell you or agree with any accusation to stop the pain.
Imagine yourself hoisted in the air with your weight on your arms which have been tied behind your back. You would not even be able to think or listen, just scream in agony. You would agree that you where a pink fairy from Mars, anything to stop the pain.
It is the most horrendous step backwards for human rights and decency. Totally sick.
Practicing Shaman... quantum physics rocks. |
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wizjp
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In the case of a level playing field, I agree. The current playing field is NOT level. Expecting enemy combatants to act in the same manner as a uniformed soldier is not realistic. The guys dropping airplanes on us are in civies. They have no reasonable expectation of the same treatment as uniformed soldiers under the Geneva convention.
I'm somewhat bemused by the people screaming bloody murder about "torture". I wonder about the people who died screaming in 9/11; and I wonder what the critics of the government policy would be screaming if the Bush Administration hadn't effectivly stopped planes falling into buildings. I think it's a case of having your cake and wanting it too; not in the real world.
I'm glad you'd trade your life for a moral high ground. I won't trade 5000 lives for a wet enemy combatant. I don't expect the leaders of my government to do anythng else.
Hijacking a plane while in civilian clothing and droping it on 5000 innocent civlilans is immoral and illegal. Using whatever tools you feel necessary to stop these animals is right. You are worried about the wrongdoers here not the victims. I won't do that.
I'm supporting a level playing field. If you want to put on a unifom of an enemy nation and storm a military air base, that's part of warfare. If captured, you get the same treatment as any other soldier under the Geneva convention.
Act in any other manner, and it's on your head. |
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know-it-all
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I totally agree.
The difficulty would be however, defining the idea of "intense situation" in order to make a law allowing torture only in extreme cases. These kind of wishy-washy and rather undefineable situations are hard to put down into legislature.
Can we really be certain that the person involved is truly involved and also has the necessary information we desire?
And when is it acceptable? When 1 innocent life is at stake? Or 100 or 1000? How do you suggest defining the border we find ourselves crossing? |
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David S
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Bring out the pliers and get a bucket of water, because it is time to give a filthy terrorist a bath. |
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demos_jones
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Problem is, everyone's opinion of "Torture" is different. For some, incarcerating a person for committing a crime is torture, as their freedom of movement, ability to make independent decisions, has been severely restricted. Granted, that IS an extreme position, but one held by many people. While certain forms of torture, such as flogging, mutillation, the Rack, etc, designed to cause extreme physical pain are easily identified as torture, certain psychological inducements do not so easily fit a common description. Otherwise, every child could legally claim "Torture" when they've been grounded or denied privileges.
So just exactly at WHAT point is the line drawn to define Torture? And if such an extreme as "No torture, ever, in any situation" holds validity, then our own laws for an orderly society become a default form of torture due to their restrictions. |
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Pat
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The US ALREADY DID BAN TORTURE IN ALL CASES
when it signed the Geneva Conventions.
They are US law now.
And cheneybush violated it and must be punished.
It doesn't matter whether you think it's a good idea.
If you don't like the law, then change the law.
But as long as it is the law, it must be followed. |
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azz_tarcomed
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No
" Useful information was gained through harsh interrogations"
President Obama - 04/29/2009 |
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