Was the Judge right to ask the Muslim lawyer to remove her veil yesterday?

ehc11

If the judge couldn't hear her clearly then I think he has every right to ask for the person in question to remove her veil. If the woman who is a lawyer could not be understood in court then she is not doing her job properly due to the presence of her veil and the judge could not do his job properly either. I can only respect for asking for the veil to be removed, I mean it isn't for very long and she was fighting for someone in court!

We're in Britain here where the covering your face is seen as suspicious, these women relly need to think about the message the veil puts across about them and their religion.

life_vamp

I'm a Muslim and i totally agree with the judge, she knew what type of work she was getting in to.

jaywball

Yes 100%
They should be banned in this country.

"When in Rome do as the Romans do"

domme me

Yes he was right.
In sharia law the word of a woman has only half the worth of a man, so perhaps she should have acceded to him, on those grounds.
In legal proceedings it is necessary to identify the people involved.

it seems that they want to go against their islamic heritage when it suits them to, and discard it when it suits them not to.

bumblingbeermonster

Yes the judge was right to make the request that she remove her veil.
Unfortunately people do not realise that this country does have rules and culture that most of us adhere to without thinking, just because it is not strictly enforced it does not mean that it is non-existent

Andy

Yes. The issue is similar to that of the student who refused to remove her veil briefly so the bus driver could compare her face with her pass photo: one is entitled to confirm the identity of a person claiming a right. In this case, the "right of audience" of a barrister in court.

But, with someone arguing in court it's even more vital: if there is a transcription being made, the recording machine and the stenographer won't be able to transcribe properly. And stenographers also may need to lip-read.

As for the judge, s/he is accustomed to giving testimony and argument varying levels of weight and credence depending upon the demeanour of the person standing before the bench.

If the Muslim lawyer doesn't like that, then she should do what veiled Muslim women do in the country her ancestors (or if she's a convert, those of her co-religious) came from: stay home, or at leat stay out of the professions.

I wouldn't go to a veiled doctor, either.

She is being a political activist, making a cultural statement and not obeying a mandatory rule of her religion. We all know that. We need not tolerate abuse and contempt from her.

bettyswestbrook

I believe that the veil is a sign of a woman who belaieves she is a submissive inferior person. If she is not at good as any man, what is she doing in court representing anyone? We, all western nations, are a visual people, we look at the face and body language to decide if a person is telling us the truth, how can we decide if this lawyer is trying to blow smoke up our _______or what.

Doethineb

It is of vital importance for people appearing in court to show their faces for purposes of identification and for those hearing the case to note their demeanour and the expressions which cross their faces as they give evidence. There are rules governing the way in which people dress for court and if a person wishes to appear before an English court, then he or she must obey them. If this woman wishes to flout them, then she really needs to consider another career -- or country.

Flying Fid

Yes he is right. It is his court and what he says goes. The veil has no religous meaning, it is just a fashion. Lawyers exist on good communication, if that is compromised by either not being able to see their facial expressions or not hearing them, they are not serving the cause of justice one little bit.

Emily Hobhouse

Yes, he was if he couldn't hear her or if it bothered him. It's not a requisite of the Muslim religion, it's a personal choice.
And it should be our personal choice if we wished to be addressed or spoken to by someone who hides their identity from us.

mrs2moo

Yes - facial expressions are critical to communication

MamaBear

I'm not familiar with the case, but it would seem to me that the judge is within his rights here. He could just as easily tell a lawyer to put on "more" clothing if he found somebody's miniskirt offensive because it was too revealing. A judge determines what is appropriate dress and what is inappropriate dress in his/her own courtroom.

In England, for example, I think the lawyers still wear "formal" robes and wigs! That is considered "appropriate" legal attire for their judicial system; dressing otherwise is considered "contempt of court".

The judge, in this case, is not asking her to remove her dress. That WOULD be inappropriate. Muslim women in countries like Saudi Arabia and Iran and Iraq (supposedly "notoriously" suppressive against women) routinely show their faces in public; just not anything else. There is no reason the trial lawyer "can't" remove a veil when she is arguing a case.

queenie

yes definatley, to prove she was who she says she was. cud have been mickey mouse for all the judge would have known

amsterdam

The judge was right. The need to know who we are dealing with is integral to European culture: this includes the Law, Business, Education, Medicine, Finance - every aspect of public life. It's also the basis of public life in most countries of the world.

Any person who does not want to live a public life is not compelled to do so. She can stay concealed at home if that is her choice. But if she wants people to engage with her, she must reciprocate. If she's not happy with this, she could consider emigrating to a country - such as Saudi Arabia - where her veil would be accepted.

Of course, she would not be able to drive a car there, and the areas of law open to her would be strictly limited. Indeed, her life would be far more restricted than the freedom she currently enjoys in the UK. So she's holding this piece of cake in her hand. She wants to eat it, but still to have it too. Can't be done sister !

I have the impression that all this veil business embarrasses most Muslims in the UK. They don't like to say anything much about it, we all try to be loyal to those we see as "our" people, but I suspect most normal Muslims are quite fed up with these young women.

lundstroms2004

The judge was in his rights. It would be like coming to the court room with a military jacket on, and a label saying " f u c k the draft". The judges power to determine dress in his/her court outweighs the expression of the attorney. An attorney is an agent of the court first and foremost.

toothache

It would have been better if she was allowed to wear the veil then we could all go masked to court citing religious grounds.
IMAGINE THE CHAOS ha ha ha

Ruth

Yes, if it truly was because he could not hear her.

The fact that the lawyer then turned up on day 2 and still refused to remove the veil, to me, is terrible: as a lawyer your job is to represent the best interests of your client, not to push a political and cultural agenda of your own. If she did not want to do as the judge asked she should have booked Counsel for the hearing or got one of her colleagues to do it for her.

Not clear from the news reports what kind of "lawyer" she is - if she's a solicitor, then she should be disciplined by the Law Society in my opinion.

Gina_06

Yes of course he was right, and to him who said when Muslims take over the world. Don't flatter yourself mate !!!! You treat women like dogs sorry no offence to dogs :)

Gina

joseph m

of course he was and if she wants her client to be properly represented she must be forced to remove it . If she again refuses she is in contempt lock her up till she relents and disbar her.and tell her the legal aid fees wont be paid that will make her take it off.If she was afghan the taliban would execute her for doing a mans job.

Veritas

Bet your life he had. He couldn't hear her. It was been worn as a deliberate provocative act.

churie78

YES YES YES

lovinevrminuetofit

whether he could hear her or not.if u come to our country,to b a american,then b a AMERICAN!!! language dress and all

kbw

Of course the judge was right! This still Britain! (Tony Blair hasn't handed the country over to thew muslims yet! And if I have anything to do with it he never will)!! She should have been held in contempt of court and jailed!!!! If she can't accept the law in this country....How can she represent the law in court?

LYN W

The judge was perfectly correct. It is a court of law, not a political platform. She was, in my opinion, in contempt of court.

bringmesunshine is back!!!

I sense another Islamophobic question.....
The judge should get his hearing tested.

tammi_alley

I think it is entirely her right to refuse, but if he truly couldn't hear her, she should make a small concession for her fellow man.

Lauren

I don't know and I don't care...its all getting stupid!!!!

Enter Your Message or Comment

User Name:
User Email:
Post a comment: