Why do Canadians have free health care?
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Why do Canadians have free health care?
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My father in law says that Canadians have free health care at a cost. Meaning that the doctors are underpaid and that it takes weeks to get an appt for an essential surgery etc. Is this true? Is this what is being propsed by Hillary Clinton?
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Big Bobby Clobber
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This is basically it.
Canadian doctors all flock to the US to practice.
And the "free" health care costs a fortune in taxes. |
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Citicop
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It isn't even free in terms of money. They pay for it out of their tax dollars.
"Free healthcare" is a myth. |
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Shauna
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That's only partly true. Canadians do have free health care, and it is a great system. Major surgeries and emergencies are always taken care of quickly. However, sometimes small conditions (i.e. a cold) may be pushed to the back burner if there are more pressing conditions (i.e. cancer) to deal with.
The doctors make a great living. They still make tons of money and live well. They may not have ten Lamborghini's in their garage, but I think they can appreciate the one that they do have!
Whatever Hillary proposes has got to be better than what we have now. More than half the population has no health care at all and medicine prices are so jacked up it is criminal. A pill that costs $500 per bottle here is free in Canada, France, and many other countries. It is ridiculous what they are charging us! |
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a c
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They pay taxes which pays for their health care, its the same in Britain we pay taxes to pay for health care. |
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transplanted_fireweed
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First of all, Canadians do not have "free" health care. The provinces charge minimal fees for health care. And prescription drugs are not covered. Besides it's only people with no taxable income that receive health care "free". All Canadians who pay taxes pay for health care through taxation. Canadian health care would better be called "equal opportunity" health care....everyone gets the same health care whether they can afford it or not because it is paid for through taxation. Obviously the people with high income are paying for health care for themselves as well as those of low income.
Secondly, Canadian doctors are not "underpaid". They wouldn't remain in the profession if that was the case. They may grumble because they have to account for their charges to the government in their billing process. They may grumble because their huge yearly income is taxed to pay for their own services to low income individuals, but they are definitely not "hurting". They are still among Canada's wealthy.
Thirdly, while some claim they have to wait for months for surgery because hospital facilities are booked to the max, I have never heard of one case where someone died or was left to suffer because they couldn't get into a hospital for treatment. I would say that if you asked those same "complainers" if they'd rather have the medical situation that is present in USA, they'd change their tune....unless, of course, they have several million dollars they don't know what to do with and can afford to pay high medical insurance premuims or the hundreds of thousands of dollars for doctors' fees and hospitalization. |
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Stained Soul
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I fail to see how high taxes equals free. You just pay someone else, nothing is free. |
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JerseyGirlKelly
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Exactly.....taxes would go up but I would rather see all children and elderly people with health insurance. We give so much money to other countries which is great but what about the poor people here in the U.S? Something has to be done to help them so I am all for universal health insurance. HMO's are pretty much like it anyway. I pay a co-pay which btw just went up again but I think everyone is in my shoes as well at their employment.
Nothing is ever FREE in life....either you or someone will pay for it. At least it will go to an American....that is how I would look at it. =) |
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anita b
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Our health care was passed as law back in the 1940's or 1950's I think.
We do pay monthly premiums dependant on your income and ability to pay.Some places in the country don't pay premiums as the government pays for them.
Our doctors like doctors everywhere are probably underpaid but do get a fair deal for the most part.
As to surgery waiting lists yes these happen but it is mostly for elective surgeries and not emergency surgeries.People who want elective surgery may have to wait but if they have the money they can speed the process up by opting to pay for the services then claim a portion of the cost on their annual taxes.
Most Canadians do not like this option as they believe it leads to two-tiered health care,meaning the wealthy get served quicker and the poor have to wait.It was to prevent this very thing that health care was implemented here.
We have to pay for our own devices and equipment and of course for any prescriptions with part of their cost deductible on annual taxes.
So really our health care is not free but we are better off than many nations in this sector. |
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Shock the world!
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Bc they pay a lot of taxes |
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remowlms
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Your father in law forgot one other cost - very high taxes. Their health care system is NOT FREE. No health care system is FREE as taxes must be raised. |
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p3200tmz
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Canadians also pay much higher taxes than we do. Theres no free ride. |
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clint_slicker
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Your father in law is following the myth placed by insurance companies. Although Canada is considered to have the worst social Health care system in the world they still are better placed than American in several areas.
- Low deaths whilst waiting for treatment in Canada than America (America has the worst rate of deaths during waiting times out of all developed countries)
- Canada is higher ranked in WHO listing of health care.
The myths like Doctors get paid less in social health care ( US family doctor average earning $120K, UK GP average Earnings $200K) aren't true either. Anyone who says that you pay more in taxes also is wrong. Not only are insurance payments for health care in The US higher than canadian tax rates but also Insurance companies don't pay for half as much as the government does in places in Europe.
America is far behind places in Europe, like france, Sweden, Germany, etc and even has infant mortality rate eqivilent to Africa.
Countries that have a public health care system also have a private sector but almost everyone uses the public health care.
The only reason that America is still using the old private system is that the insurance companies are so powerful. The only argument anyone can have is that the American goverment is rubbish in everything they do, but isn't that the fault of the people who voted them in?
America does lead the world in cancer but with the America system the person have their life that ruined. You get treated and have a high rate of survival, as long as the insurance company agrees to pay for your treatment. unfortunatly due to being ill your company fires you. If your lucky and you manage to keep the insurance company (another insurance company wouldn't cover you for your cancer) the monthly payments, co-insurance, deducable, office visits, prescriptions, etc still need to be paid. With no job and these bills you need to find the money, lots of loans. with all this extra payment your going to need to sell your house as you can't afford to keep paying the mortage.
You may recover but you've got no house, $$$ at least worth of debt, no job, medical bills for prescription. At least you didn't pay for the kid next doors broken leg when you were still working.
Any wonder why Europeans live longer than Americans
heyteach - Yet the Canadain government still pays a 10th of what America Government pay in Health care costs and still manages to rank above America.
The British Government would never take a backwards step as to remove public healthcare. Instead the treatment is passed to other institutes, whether in the UK or Europe and treatment is paid for by the patients local NHS trust.
A few years ago a private sector company opened several Urgent Care centres in the UK, a charge of ÂŁ20, $40, per visit. They lasted under a year due to lack of use. With the public so clearly against paying for something that should be everyones right the private sector will never be as powerful as it is in America. |
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vtjames7433
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It certainly isnt free and living in a border state, I can ASSURE you that a lot of a Canadians jump the border for care and that all four of my doctors are Canadians who have escaped that system- one still lives there and commutes everyday the rest have long ago become US citizens |
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heyteach
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There is never any "free" anything. Yes Canadians pay a lot in taxes. Yes their physicians are underpaid (certainly by American standards). Yes there are waiting lists.
Hillary hasn't exactly proposed Canadian health care here officially but if you look at her work, especially the creation of SCHIP with Teddy Kennedy in 1997, that is the ultimate goal.
Facts about Canadian health care:
"Comparing Canada with other industrialized countries in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) that provide universal access to health care, a study released by The Fraser Institute in May revealed that Canada spends more on its system than other nations while ranking among the lowest in several key indicators, such as access to physicians, quality of medical equipment, and key health outcomes.
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In 1999, Richard F. Davies, MD, described how delays affected Ontario heart patients scheduled for coronary artery bypass graft (CABG) surgery. In a single year, for this one operation, 71 patients died before surgery and another "121 were removed from the list permanently because they had become medically unfit for surgery;" 44 left Ontario and had their CABG elsewhere, such as in the USA. In other words, 192 people either died or were too sick to have surgery before they worked their way to the front of the waiting line.
One of the reasons Canadians are slow to acknowledge the problems with their system is that general practitioners have been relatively easy to access and reasonably efficient at providing everyday services for common complaints, such as colds, sprains, aches and pains.
As time passes, however, more and more Canadians are confronted by the halting quality of their system when they face complex and expensive medical problems. They often cannot get timely or appropriate care for bone fractures, prompt treatment for cancer, or non-emergency surgery such as hip replacements. Their doctors complain that they are unable to help them and the government pleads shortage of funds.
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Canadian physician frustration with their inability to provide quality and timely care is resulting in a brain drain. According to one poll, one in three Canadian doctors is considering leaving the country. A doctor shortage looms, as the nation falls 500 doctors a year short of the 2,500 new physicians it needs to add each year to meet national health needs, according to Sally Pipes, a policy expert formerly with the Canadian Fraser Institute.
Another casualty of the lengthy waiting periods is Canada's much-vaunted equal access to medical treatment. Even though medical emergencies allow some people to jump ahead in the waiting line — making others wait longer — a survey published in the Annals of Internal Medicine medical journal found that more than 90 percent of heart specialists had "been involved in the care of a patient who received preferential access" to cardiac care based on non-medical reasons including the patient's social standing or personal connections with the treating physician."
Jewish World Review June 11, 2004 written by Dr. Cihak
AND
"The biggest Canadian fiscal drain comes from the single-payer medical system. "Current model of health-care delivery leading us down the path to financial ruin," states the lead editorial in the Calgary Sun. Health-care costs would consume 50% of Alberta's budget by 2016 (according to the Fraser Institute) or 2017 (according to Aon Consulting, a firm hired by the Alberta government). Health care would devour 100% of the provincial budget by 2030, if present trends continue.
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An estimated 90,000 Canadians sought medical care outside their country in 2005. The cry "no two-tiered system" could be replaced by "set our patients free," stated a lead editorial (National Post 9/18/06)."
Jewish World Review Dec. 1, 2006 by Dr. Glueck
So why no total collapse yet? Because “illegal, for-profit health-service centers” have “proliferated” in Canada and are so accepted that the head of one became the president of the Canadian Medical Association (“Individual Freedom vs. Government Control,” 1 August 2007, nationalreview.com).
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from a Canadian physician now in the US:
"...Another sign of transformation: Canadian doctors, long silent on the health-care system’s problems, are starting to speak up. Last August, they voted Brian Day president of their national association. A former socialist who counts Fidel Castro as a personal acquaintance, Day has nevertheless become perhaps the most vocal critic of Canadian public health care, having opened his own private surgery center as a remedy for long waiting lists and then challenged the government to shut him down. “This is a country in which dogs can get a hip replacement in under a week,” he fumed to the New York Times, “and in which humans can wait two to three years.”
And now even Canadian governments are looking to the private sector to shrink the waiting lists. Day’s clinic, for instance, handles workers’-compensation cases for employees of both public and private corporations. In British Columbia, private clinics perform roughly 80 percent of government-funded diagnostic testing. In Ontario, where fealty to socialized medicine has always been strong, the government recently hired a private firm to staff a rural hospital’s emergency room.
This privatizing trend is reaching Europe, too. Britain’s government-run health care dates back to the 1940s. Yet the Labour Party—which originally created the National Health Service and used to bristle at the suggestion of private medicine, dismissing it as “Americanization”—now openly favors privatization. Sir William Wells, a senior British health official, recently said: “The big trouble with a state monopoly is that it builds in massive inefficiencies and inward-looking culture.” Last year, the private sector provided about 5 percent of Britain’s nonemergency procedures; Labour aims to triple that percentage by 2008. The Labour government also works to voucherize certain surgeries, offering patients a choice of four providers, at least one private. And in a recent move, the government will contract out some primary care services, perhaps to American firms such as UnitedHealth Group and Kaiser Permanente.
Sweden’s government, after the completion of the latest round of privatizations, will be contracting out some 80 percent of Stockholm’s primary care and 40 percent of its total health services, including one of the city’s largest hospitals. Since the fall of Communism, Slovakia has looked to liberalize its state-run system, introducing co-payments and privatizations. And modest market reforms have begun in Germany: increasing co-pays, enhancing insurance competition, and turning state enterprises over to the private sector (within a decade, only a minority of German hospitals will remain under state control). It’s important to note that change in these countries is slow and gradual—market reforms remain controversial. But if the United States was once the exception for viewing a vibrant private sector in health care as essential, it is so no longer."
http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_3_canadian_healthcare.html
No country needs UHC. What Americans need is something like this with free market and choices:
That means preventative care (physical with follow up). Real medication (no Medicare "donut holes" the really ill are screwed again.) No bogus ridiculously low "caps" on needed medical procedures. No abuse of the ER. No paying for the silly with the sniffles to go to the doc for free. No more bankruptcies over medical bills. I want THIS plan that ends abuse of the taxpayer, takes the burden off employers, provides price transparency, and ends the rip-off of the US taxpayer at the hands of greedy insurance CEOs (which has been repeatedly documented).
http://www.booklocker.com/books/3068.htm...
Read the PDF, not the blurb, for the bulk of the plan. Book is searchable on Amazon.com
Cassandra Nathan's Save America, Save the World |
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Forget War Buy More
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That's what we have now. Doctors bound by HMOs and waitlists for doctors and surgery.
Universal healthcare works for all. Our current system works for CEOs of HMOs. |
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Brian
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Yes...yes it is what Hillary Clinton proposes...however, it may cost a lot but it will still protect our people by making health care free. |
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roysbigtoys
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NOTHING in life is free! Your father in law is right,in Canada, there are long lines for basic health care and the doctors really do not care.( It is funny that when you are not compensated for your hard work,productivity always goes down) Yes Hillary,Obama,and Edwards all want this same health care system that has FAILED everywhere it has been tried. |
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fourbyfour
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47 million Americans are uninsured vs 0 Canadians are uninsured.
Uninsured meaning, no access to medical care. Sure we pay more taxes, but I'd rather pay more taxes than to see half of my fellow Canadians suffer medically or financially. One point not a lot of people mention is, Canadians have a higher standard of living, meaning our minimum wage is higher, real estate costs more and many other things, so it would be considered high for an American. I live in Vancouver, BC (2010 Winter Olympics) and for the past few years, we have been rated as the Best Place to Live in the WORLD. This kinda baffles me, because it is quite expensive to live here. The same house in the US would be valued at $400,000 where as in Vancouver, an average house is around $800,000-1.1 million (this includes 60 year old homes). SO please don't be offended when I say 'higher standard of living' its just the term everyone uses to refer to this. I'd rather call it 'more costly standard of living' personally.
Also, the OECD Health Data for 2008 states that the US has the highest health expenditure per capita (including public and private) at $7538, second - Norway $5003, third - Switzerland $4627, third - Luxembourg $4210 and finally Canada at $4079.
I'd pay for health care to cover not just myself but others because I know they would do the same. The whole talk about long wait times is merely subjective. What is considered long? I've had a 3 minor day surgeries and the wait time ranged from 1-4 weeks. But these were minor and the one where I was in pain was done in a week and the other 2 were hardware removals.
And those reading who are calling Canadian health care 'basic' PAY ATTENTION: My friend had an 11 hour surgery after breaking his back from a fall, he's had 11 other major and minor skin-flap surgeries since then. Guess what, our 'BASIC' health care covered that. He found out that his accident cost over HALF A MILLION in medically necessary operations and treatment which he did not half to pay for. Yes, he has medication but the cost is no where near the 'premiums, co-payments or deductibles' Americans have to pay in order to get money back for their meds and treatment.
Again, 47 million uninsured Americans and ZERO uninsured Canadians. How many of the 47 million have died simply because they couldn't receive medical treatment because they didn't have an laminated insurance card? Seriously people, Canada might not have the best health care, but at least in our country we do not weigh the cost of a human life.
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Moby1
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If you think docs in Canada are underpaid.... check out their salaries from the government last year:
http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/msp/legislation/pdf/bluebook2010.pdf
This doesn't count money they get from universities, sitting on committees, pharma payouts, billing for employer related injuries. And they pay almost no malpractice insurance premiums (goverment takes care of that)
If this is underpaid.... I want to go to Canada!!!! I would love to gripe about making $400,000 a year. |
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