An extremely sensitive question about NFL star turned Army Ranger, Pat Tillman?

nikola s

for love and for hate I swat a fly and offer it to an ant

joby10095

People who haven't been there have no clue how F***ing CRAZY it can be. Tilman was shot at 10 meters? That is 30-40 feet. I was in engagements that were closer than that, and I have to say, I couldn't tell exactly who we were shooting at. War is incredlibly confusing, and I'm willing to bet that any other combat vets on this site will back me up on that.

Here is a tip for people who think Tilman was shot on purpose. Go out in the dark, with 2 friends, dress them differently, whatever. Now, run around, spin around a few times, get sweaty and just a little dizzy, set off firecrackers and maybe a couple of smoke bombs. Now, with your friends 30-40 feet away, you have 1 second to decide which one is which. Oh, and if you guess wrong, they get to beat the s*** out of you.

There was nothing sinister at all. An M16 on 3 round burst probably caught him in the head when he popped his head up from behind cover. You don't know if he, or the guy who shot him was out of position, confused, and scared. I'm telling you, it was a accident. The Army was stupid to try to cover up friendly fire, but that has been happening probably since the first Greek, in the heat of battle, accidently stabbed the guy next to him, and then blamed it on the enemy.

Tommy B

Let's make sure we don't lose sight of the forest for the trees.
The details about Tillman's death are of interest, but largely incidental. The real issue is that Pat Tillman is a real hero; He gave up a lucrative NFL career to serve his country in time of war. Not only that, but he volunteered for the Army Rangers, one of the toughest and most dangerous duties in all the military. If Pat Tillman's devotion to his country is not heroic, then nothing is. Duty, Honor, Country; These are the values Pat Tillman was willing to die for. He was the epitome of what America wants to be. He died carrying out his duties, whether by friendly fire or not. Every war has friendly-fire casualties Our only loss in my unit in Panama was a F-F accident AT POINT-BLANK RANGE. The soldier who accidentally discharged his weapon and killed his fellow soldier was put on suicide watch and will carry the guilt to his grave, as will the Ranger who accidentally hit Pat Tillman with a standard three-round burst.
"Our youngest, bravest and strongest will fall by the sword."
God bless Pat Tillman's soul and comfort his family.

vistazan

I believe he was shot by accident in the heat of battle by his fellow soldiers. A terrible thing, and something that just happens in war.
Nobody would have thought any less of it had those in charge told the truth from the start. But in lying and trying to make him into some Martyr and hero who died at the hands of the enemy they brought this mess on themselves.

Mother of a Marine

My son returned form Iraq in April, he came home on leave and we took him to a baseball game.. well when the home team makes a homerun they shoot off fireworks, we had arrived late to the game and as we were pulling into the stadium the fireworks went off, I instantly recognized what was going on and was saying cool we already made a homerun hit, I turned to talk to my son about it but he had opened the back door and jumped out . I couldn't imagine the fear he still felt to make him jump out of our car but I saw it in his eyes. What I'm trying to get at is my son was at home with his family around him,the decision he made to jump from our car was automatic.I can't even start to comprehend what young men or women over there can take. (Army and National Guard stay much longer than Marines).
Semper Fi from one who knows

oldhippypaul

joby10095 tells it just like it is. I am just going to roger that and advise giving them the points.

censoredbyevil

A terrible mistake was made by an American soldier who thought he was shooting an enemy but shot Tillman instead. We should also pray for the soldier who shot Tillman. The guilt he is living with has to be tough, and I hope he can still have a good life.

moon_flower_unicorn_power

shot 3 times in the forehead at close range...yep, sinister

i say again "shot 3 times in the forehead"

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,291046,00.html

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2007/Jul/27/ln/hawaii707270364.html

Marine till Death

First, to nycrunner2004, shut your fu@king filthy piehole!!!

OK, now that I got that off my chest, I don't think I can say it any better than joby. And your right brother, this vet will back you 100%. People who have never been in a situation like that can NEVER understand what it is like. And the reason we do it is so most people don't ever have to. Mistakes and tragities happen, nothing sinister here. And Murphy's #1 Law of combat: Friendly fire-ISN"T!

drummer158

it is unfortunate for pat to have died this way . as a veit nam vet i feel as though i should say this. I will be willing to gamble and say that at least10 - 15 % of the heros on the wall were killed by friendly fire. maybe more maybe less.so why not just let pat R.I.P. and drop this subject completely. crap happens and he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Starte Christ

What about the MILLIONS of Iraq citizens who are dead, homeless, injured, tortured, raped, or missing? They came from the same source as Mr Tillman. Why do you forsake millions for the one?

You should not be surprised by anything that goes on in a war. It is most unnatural.

Someday this insanity will end only to start all over again.

CHARITY G

I think whenever you put a bunch of twenty year olds in a hornet's nest of a country and expect them to not only shoot their way out of it, but rebuild it, and maintain peace . . . your asking for a certain amount of disaster. I think someone just snapped. I think we put a kid in a situation where he was not capable of handling the stress involved and he just snapped. I think it was very similar to when someone comes home and finds there spouse in bed with the next door neighbor . . .

Davis Wylde

I think/know that the true nature of JSOC operations and those who take part in any military operation is SECRECY. In the JSOC realm for which he volunteered, the Rangers, his missions, purpose and everything else HAS to remain a secret for your safety. That may seem like a convenient answer or one which goes against your right to free press and information.
It's not.
No one can know what it is that we do, when we do it, how we do it, or who we do it against in a lot of instances... and I'm no where near on the level of Tillman (either way) but no one will understand the importance of "OPSEC" (Operational Security) unless they've been in positions where their lives were on the line and protected by the secrecy.

Simple Answer:
Secrecy breeds curiosity.
Curiosity feeds the imagination.
Imagination can be as destructive as it is constructive.
Let him be as he is, a man who died in a military operation.
Anyone who wants to gripe about friendly fire has never been in an area where there were multiple friendly and hostile personnel with firearms.
It does happen.
I hope this answer is of some consequence.

007

war is hell, and he died in battle. it does not matter who killed him, he is a dead American hero. This is a tragic story, but the death of every solder is.

holdon

Nothing sinister happened to my knowlege, he was killed in FF, and the Army covered it up, it was wrong, but it happened. How he died was a tradegy, not sinister.

A lot of guys have died due to friendly fire, American, British, during the beginning of the Iraq war, the US army had a habbit of shooting down british planes/helicopters.

juneaumarine

Pat was a very promising NFL star and from all accounts a very good gung ho Ranger. I do not think the accidental shooting was sinister. Instead, it was a part of war no one likes to talk about. Friendly fire. In the heat of a firefight you aren't really thinking, it's all reaction. People are shooting at you, you are shooting at them, unless you know where your team members are, you shoot at anything that moves. It's how you and your team get home to mom.

Gunny

Johnny Guano

with all due respect, this information with details has been available for a couple of years now. you should forgo sentimental pontificating in favor of research on cold hard facts?

Tracy Terry

I remember him. I knew he was killed, but I have not heard of this story. If true, it is tragic, but lots of people are dying over there. Pat served his country as a brave soldier. He is gone, so maybe we should leave it at that (unless the authorities know who did this thing if the story is true).

John

joby 10095 anwered this question 100%. He left nothing out.....WELL DONE!

porkchop1633

Pat tillman was murdered. He was a true hero and had the clout to get the media's attention and went against his command so this made hi a liability and they could not throw him out of the military as they have done to so many others in the past. So it was easier to snuff out a man who went against the military and blame it on the dogs of war. Not anything new for military action and military leaders.

King Felix

I think its quite simple, some of his comrades got jealous and tired of his celebrity status and wanted to get rid of him.

plus tillman had an unfriendly attitude towards others.

I believe it was defintely on purpose.

pedro

edit 3: opinion deleted.
edit 1: Evidence and accounts in field reports; No active enemy engagement at the hour and location of the shooting of Mr. Tillman.
edit 2: just now did read the quoted blog@

http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-DfkctJU7dK5B7LcNROoyVQ--?cq=1
My new opinion: People with experience in combat have more sense of respect than those who have no combat experience.

"I doubt they have fully figured out how it happened, but some Monday morning quarterback that has never been in the military, much less engaged in daily combat operations can NOT sit in judgment of them. I will not sit in judgment of them, because I was not there and because I know how confusing things can get."

at_wolfy

I do not remember hearing he was shot 3 times in the head, but I do think it was a tragic accident.

John B

And you've actually seen this evidence? Or are you allowing yourself to be entertained by the main stream media again?

nycrunner2004

With no respect due...who gives a dam...he was a dummy for leaving the NFL to fight for a bunch of people who can care less for him like me....hes dead get over it....hes nobody.....a real waste of space...instead of worrying about this queer, why don't you people worry about the thousands that are still struggling in New Orleans.....pathetic

bushonlysubmale

He was anti-Iraq war. He hated God and President Bush. He was a liability.

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