Do you view those refusing to fight in Iraq as heroes?

Living In Korea

COWARDS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pagan Dan

I do not view it as heroic at all--and I'm against the war. My reasons are as follows:

1. The US Armed Forces is all-volunteer. There is no draft.
2. Military personnel obey the lawful commands of their superior officers. The Iraq War might be illegal, but that is a matter of opinion for the time being. It has never been determined to be illegal in any court.
3. No country can tolerate military personnel deciding which orders to obey, and which ones to disobey or ignore. It doesn't work that way.
4. For every member of the Armed Forces who refuses to go to Iraq, someone else must go in his or her place.

The Supreme Court of Canada has refused to hear an appeal of American deserters claiming refugee status in Canada. For all the reasons I have just quoted. American law is a bit different from Canadian law, but not substantially so.

I have a lot more respect for GI's and Marines already in Iraq who refuse to obey illegal orders than I have those who refuse to go in the first place--however heartfelt and morally laudable their oppopsition to human rights abuses is.

I have a lot more respect for guys who honorably served their country in Iraq and THEN voice their opposition than those who refuse to go in the first place.

ryanwatts@sbcglobal.net

Soldiers who refuse to fight during a war when there is no draft cannot be heroes. That is subversive to the government.

tigerfire2002

They joined the military by choice, not by gunpoint or draft. They are not heros at all. They thought that they could come in and skate through...well, they thought wrong.

THEY SIGNED UP TO DEFEND AND DIE FOR THEIR COUNTRY JUST LIKE I HAVE AND MANY OTHERS BEFORE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DEAL WITH IT AND DO YOUR DAMN JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

gummyworm

I view them as cowards,how dare they refuse to fight for their own country,they are the ones protecting us and people like their families.

Wayne C

The US has had an all volunteer force since 1973. The last draftee was inducted in June 73.

As everyone volunteered they show GREAT cowardice by joining and then refusing anything. If they did not want to take the chance of combat, getting stationed in Alaska, Korea or Germany all they had to do was get a J O B. No harm, no foul in that.

When you raise your hand and SWEAR to "Protect and defend the Constitution" and to obey all legal orders....well you just have to MAN up and do it. Period!!!

SSG US Army 73-82

jason

no i think they a cowards

Gotta have more explosions!

Maybe if they were conscripts it'd be alright. But when you join an all-volunteer military, you don't have much of a choice.

witwwats

They are entitled to their opinion, however, they have accepted the benefits that come with being in the military and , when they decline to deploy, have committed fraud.

In a combat zone, they could be shot without trial.

Lying and cowardice are not reasons to consider people heros.

rnwallace07

No, I do not view them as heroes. If a person in the military does not wish to fight in combat, he/she could always apply for conscientious objector status. There are other positions in the military than "front line" troops. When a person enlists in the military, he/she takes an oath voluntarily to defend our country and the Constitution of the United States. Go back and re-read International Law on Invasion. Just because some veterans who were in Iraq don't like it, doen't mean they are right. They are still entitled to their feelings, though.

RTO Trainer

Of course not.

If absolutely nothing else, everytime someone shirks, it means that someone else has to go in their place.

Blue Falcon!

The invasion of Iraq was not illegal under international law and anyone who says it is, doesn't know what international law says, or the history of the conflict.

The short version: The UN authorized force against Iraq in 1991. There was only a cease-fire to that conflict, which required Hussein to comply with a number of provisions. He refused to do so. In the intervening time, the UN not only never rescinded the original authorization, they invoked it in every resolution concering Iraq that followed, keeping it alive.

A violated cease-fire is legal grounds to resume hostilities. In addition we went back and got one more resolution just to play it smart. And you STILL want to make noises about illegality.

It's not about always obeying orders. There are orders that must not be obeyed. But there are right and wrong ways to do that as well.

Its about following the rules. Even more, though, it's about bearing good faith and fellowship to the men and women who serve with you, and every one of the weasels you'd like to laud as heroes has betrayed the trust of every other one of us who wear a uniform.

Evan

Its illegal to refuse a direct order. Refusal or compliance is not an option. Just do it.
There is no honor to those who fail to follw lawful orders, whether the attack on Iraq was illegal or not, its still an order.

Specter

Ok heres the thing about the military. You signed a contract when you joined. In that contract you agreed to do everything that you where told to do. Unless it was an unlawfull or irrational order but thats more on a smaller scale. As a soldier you have no place to judge the morality of the government and its decisions. Your job is to fight and follow orders to the best of your ability. You cant pull the "irrational order" card because the order that is beign ignored must comply with U.S. law and policy. As a soldier serving under the U.S. you have nothing to do with international laws. Your a warrior not a politican. Your job is to protect, defend, attack, and kill. Not to pass judgement on whether what congress said to do. Congress is elected FROM THE PEOPLE as is the president. So as a soldier your not just following orders from some old guys. Your doing what the american people want. Maybe it dont sound like it. But thats how it is. A soldier is a soldier. Those who refuse to fight because its not morrally right got what was expected. They are warriors. Primary function is to kill. They are not politicians. Whether its right or wrong you do it. Or else you go to jail. Simple as that.

GunnyC

No they are not courageous-when you join the military you have no right to disobey orders unless they are illegal, morality is a personal matter and immoral does not play a a part in the right to refuse illegal orders.. Nothing in international law says the invasion of Iraq is illegal, one far left lawyer saying does not make it a fact. Freedom to place your morale beliefs above orders is not an option. You took the money and would continue taking it if you didn't have to go to Iraq but won't go to Iraq because you don't believe in the morality of the war? More likely worried about getting hurt and some one with guts has to take their place and will and they might not agree with the morality either. They are cowards who do this and have broke there oath to the service, country and Constitution so what is there moral high ground? I never took anoath to fight for justice or opposing human right abuses-no where in the oath I took does those words appear and the oath is the same now. The number should be identified as a very small number-don't make tem out as bigger group then they are. Are the military people who think it is morally right courageous for going back again in your opinion?

mcspic63

they are cowards and you are an ill-informed coward

YA is a sham

There are hundreds of jobs in the military that do not require "fighting" or killing. Any person who VOLUNTARILY joins the military, ends up in combat duty, and refuses to follow orders deserves a coward's death.

Yes mysterian, coward is an accurate description. The enemy does not subscribe to the politically correct mentality.

Watch this video about some things that are REALLY happening in Iraq http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwDE0K7VXns

Greenman

Conscientious Objector is a high bar to hurdle.

Most who have sudden Epiphanies and become "COs" are just cowards who don't want to go where it's dangerous and they might get hurt or killed.

SGT Alvin York was a very religious man and believed killing was wrong, and at first he was a CO. A sympathetic officer convinced him to stay and York "left it to God" as to whether he would have to kill while deployed to Europe. In battle, he found himself pinned down by withering German gunfire and saw many of his comrades killed around him, and due to the heavy casualties he found himself in charge. He managed to end the fighting in his sector by killing 25 Germans and capturing 125 more.

Killing was against his religion, both before and after the Great War, but when he left it to God's will, he found that some killing was necessary to end the war sooner and stop the killing altogether.

Today, there is no draft. If you are a CO, then DO NOT enlist in the military (duh.), and if you have a "conversion" and become a CO, you should fulfill your obligation to the military, then once you reach you ETS, get out be a CO as a civilian.

Most of those who have refused to fight in Iraqi had sudden conversions as their units were preparing to deploy. That is cowardice and I don't see how a Soldier with a yellow streak who breaks his oath is any kind of "hero."

There are three kinds of people in this world. The vast majority are Sheep...people who live their little lives and pretend everything will be okay. There are Wolves who prey upon the sheep...terrorists, criminals and dictators are wolves. Finally there are Sheepdogs who protect the Sheep from the wolves...Soldiers and Cops are sheepdogs. Fighting the wolves, standing guard, patrolling around the outside of the flock in order to protect the sheep from the danger which is always present.

These "Soldiers" who refused to fight in Iraq are Sheepdogs who became sheep.

b52gflyer

Today's American military is an all volunteer force. When you sign your enlistment papers you agree to its terms. The terms include obeying the lawful orders of those who are appointed over you. The key word here is lawful. You sign and you face the fate of whatever lawful order you receive. This may include KP, washing a truck, or going to war. You know this going in. You are taught that in basic training. You cannot change your mind in the middle of your enlistment. If you believe that the "attack on Iraq was illegal under International Law" then you should not have enlisted in the first place. By the way it is legal under international law because it was sanctioned by the United Nations.

As a retired military Officer I always had to do what I was legally ordered to do. My job was to defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. The "I was only following orders" defense is illegal, that was proved at Nuremberg in 1948. The Nazi leadership was hung for following illegal orders.

I think you should really read the Constitution and United States History and learn what our great country is all about.

NSA

We call these 'people' Cowards.

conranger1

Obviously you have a very biased troll opinion which counts for nothing!!

mysterian

When did it start that soldiers picked and chose when/where they were going to fight?
There is no draft anymore, when you sign up there is no mistake in what is expected from you. No one forced them to enlist.
I would not call them cowards, or any derogatory name. At the same time I would not want to depend on them in battle.

Yuriy

Of course not! Refusing an unlawful order is one thing but refusing to go because of politics is dishonorable. Every active duty person who refuses to go to Iraq because theyâ€™re too political should be tried under the UCMJ and/or discharged, depending on their unique situation. Those people will get theirs.

As for the veterans who speak out about the war, Iâ€™m fine with that as long as they are no longer active duty. Once you leave the military, they have the right to speak out about their beliefs that the current actions are wrongâ€¦they are civvies, after all.

RayN-is-back

You have read You can read?Just were did you read this how many one two or three

hillbillycoot

It's not a matter of courage, its a matter of conscience. Soldiers have the right to refuse to carry out an illegal or immoral order.

bantugan

It is heroism to refuse fighting in a war that does not have any moral foundation. If the war in Iraq is one of those wars that are being fought just because of trying to assert one nation's military might then it is truly heroism. If the war is being fought for the sake of justice and human rights, it is cowardice.

xialou1

lol... rile them up....

i agree

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