My point is, marine corps boot camp would be good if only drill instructors remember two words, "hands off"...

LTC

I am afraid that the training of our military has become watered down. certainly there is no cause for unprovoked assaults on unwary soldiers, but our fear of being too harsh has made the training grounds for our soldiers a faded picture of what they were. There needs to be a balance of harshness and civility. I am afraid that we have swung too far away from that necessary harshness of military training.

Unfortunately a similar pendulum swing has happened on the battlefields. Of course armed forces must attempt to protect the innocent. But people die in conflicts that are unintended targets. People die because the enemy will intentionally place himself in the proximity of non-combatants. Poeple die because of mistakes that soldiers might make. But if you are busy wringing your hands over how violent and brutal it might look on TV or to some imbedded reporter, then you start to forget that brutality is exactly what wars are all about. And brutality is absolutely necessary in order to win in combat. It is a reality that many Americans do not like to acknowledge; once committed to the battle, you must be willing and capable of being stronger, more fierce, more relentless, and more unforgiving than your enemy. You have to reach the primordial brutality needed to crush the life from your enemy. It is mean, it is ugly, but if you cannot acknowledge this necessity, then you cannot win in a war. It is terrible that civilians get killed, it is terrible to have to order soldiers on a mission when they might die. But again, if you are going to fight the conflict in order to win it, these things will happen.

I think some of our elite units and special ops types understand this.

I will now step down from my soapbox.

landen -- your story is nice but it has no conclusion and that was an isolated incident. I spent years around basic training grounds of Fort Dix, Fort Benning, Fort Sill and others.

Hoorah

Well, first of all Semper Fi fellow marine. I was in basic a little over 4 years ago and when the DI's hit or slap or push the recruits it was usually when we were doing something that required us to think because they wanted us to be able to do anything while anything and everything was going on around us. It was primarily to remove the effect of distraction. Now, I never saw or heard of someone getting the butts kicked by a DI. But, I guess it could have happened. Besides, marines are the toughest branch of the military. If our guys can't take a little slap or punch what are we really even doing in the marines to begin with.

Nekkra

"if someone goes to electrician school, do he need to get shocked to become a good electrician?"

Actually, YES. It teaches him to respect the electricity.

If you don't like the treatment there, don't go. The Marine Corps is not a bunch of whiney brats. They are hard charging killing machines, HOORAH. They don't need to be treated like babies, they need to be taught what will keep them alive. Boo-friggin-hoooo. Go cry me a river.

The Army's basic training is WAY too easy now and that is one of the major things wrong with the Army today. There is not enough discipline in the soldiers coming out of basic. A couple smacks to the head, some loud yelling, drilling into the late hours of night and up at the crack of dawn for more.... these are things that make a soldier. The first time I heard a soldier tell me "Excuse me Sergeant, but I think I am too stressed so I have to take a break" I wanted to choke the living snot out of him, his daddy, and his drill sergeant.

Get a grip on what the heck a soldier (or Marine in this case) is supposed to do. They are not 9-5ers, they are SOLDIERS. They FIGHT in WARS. They SHOOT PEOPLE. Holy Christmas, get a friggin clue.

Lucifer J Satan

Why, were you contact counselled girly man?
Grow up, they're building something specific to their needs, not a day care centre.

And Fish: thanks but Contact Counselling is an old term, just like if a recruit was putting the shites on and you dropped him, you "supported his head and neck whilst assisting him in adopting the prone position" not grabbed him around the throat and put him on his ***.

Judge Dredd

It's really not hard to understand why the DI's slapped you around. There's a whole line of people on Yahoo that want to beat you down because you whine like a little girl.

mr_white_the_secure_american

when were you usmc?

Fish

I was watching the movie "Full Metal Jacket" for the first time with a friend of mine, who used to be a soldier. I was taking in the first part of the movie with great horror and interest, and that friend told me, "do you know why Sgt. Hartman is being so hard on him?" I shook my head. "So he survives when he gets out there."

Your Drill Instructor is doing the same thing. He or She is making sure you have the best chance to survive out there, so take it, learn from it, move on and quit bellyaching about it.

Another thing I wanted to mention is that I am a re-enactment fencer, which means I fence as they would have in period, but with certain safety regulations, because it's a sport. Unfortunately, I had a problem common to women fencers at first: I am afraid of being hit in the head. The solution? The biggest, strongest man in the group at the time took me aside outfitted with just a mask on, no weapon, no armor, nothing, and my hands behind my back, so I'm at my most vulnerable and went to town on my head. It hurt. My ears rang for a while, I had a stiff neck for days, and a headache that could melt lead, but you know what? I don't flinch anymore, and I'm a better fencer for it. Now that I'm a safety officer myself, I would not have a problem with that gentleman doing the same thing to someone else with a similar difficulty if it was requested. Pain and repetition are good teachers.

I just wanted to say, Curious, "contact counselled" is brilliant, and you are completely right, they are trying to form people they can use.

Beaujock, think of it like intensive job training, except it's your life you're training for.

kveryeffective

You think that is bad.
No nearly as bad as they are going to face when they go to combat.
Or taken by the bad guys.

If they can't handle a few pokes how are they going to handle having someone cutting off their buddies head infront of them.

sparhawk7322

Yes we should handle Marines with kid gloves because once they get out into the real world nothing will ever be hard for them.

By the way did you know that most violence in basic training is instigated by the recruits and not the DI's.

Soldier in the Rocks

the hitting and that bull that surrounds basic is all psychological, to wean out the pansies. They want the tough to make it am the wimps to wash out. And they can hit you to because you are no longer a civilian you are U.S. Property.

HSK's mama

As the daughter of a former Marine Corps D.I., you seem like a real candy a** to me!!

ret_roch_cop

My oldest grandson is a Marine. He enlisted in December of 2005. He told me that his training was some of the toughest stuff he ever had to go through but he also told me, although I knew if from my own time in the Army Infantry, that the whole idea is to teach Marines to obey command INSTANTLY and without thinking. That's something that could save his life in a combat situation. I know because it saved mine in Vietnam. I suppose that sometimes you just have to get someone's attention in order to get the message across, and depending on how big of a knothead they are, the method the Drill Instructor has to use should vary to meet the requirement. I also don't understand this whole problem that some people have with language. We're taliking about lifesaving training for use in combat situations where someone's intent is to take your life and you're concerned about how the Drill Instructor addresses you? Whoa!

Leogirl0804

If you are too sensitive to withstand Marine Boot camp perhaps you should join the girl scouts. Do you think the enemy is going to recognize or give a rats *** about invading your personal space? Perhaps we should adopt the timeout practice. Would that make you feel better? While I was never hit myself in Basic (AF) I can understand the services that are training you to be tough and handle what could potentially kill you if you are not able to follow orders.

chefsky2001

ok lets sent a platoon of your trained marines and a platoon by the real marines against each other see who is left standing. war is not a flower fight you flippin hippie.

tallerfella

I'm thinkin the closest you've been to boot camp is in front of the TV watching Full Metal Jacket...........

Phaedrus

The physicality of soldier training dates back to the earliest recorded warrior schools. If you pu$$ify the training, you will get that exact result in the graduates from the programs. It should be hard, mean and unforgiving. Because to be a warrior on a battlefield, you must be hard mean and unforgiving. All this sensitivity training in the military is a bunch of cr@p.

Soldiers and marines are there to kill people and break things. War is violent and ugly and your comrades need to know that you are capable of being violent and ugly before you are looking through your sight at some kid with an RPG pointing at your platoon sergeant and the LT... or better yet, all you've got is your Kbar... are you going to kill him? I mean he's just a little kid? OOPS, you hesitated too long. Now the platoon leadership is dead and you are being over run....

Boot camp primitive? Mean? Too violent? D@mn right... if it's too much go home and cry to momma.

mudmarine

The only thing you post is your bytch about BOOT CAMP.
Thousands of us went thru it,same time as you and it was rough,it was meant to be.
Now,go get a life,it was 40 years ago.

VK1960

If you are worried about getting hit, then you shouldn't be in the service. What about when you are at war????Grow the hell up!!!!!

gunplumber_462

>>if someone goes to plumber school, do he need to be hit with a pipe to become a good plumber? if someone goes to electrician school, do he need to get shocked to become a good electrician? so, why do a Marine or any fighting man needs to get hit to become a good warrior?<<

Looks like you answered your own question. How do you train a warrior without judiciously applying violence? You don't.

bugs280

Quit whining and complaining. Do what you're told IMMEDIATELY and they will keep their hands off. The whole point of boot camp is to get you to follow orders. Do that and you'll have a much easier time.

By the way, How are you getting all this Internet time if you're really in boot camp?

Sgt 524

But how would they get your attention?

We need a few good men!

Albannach

It's really a wonder you're not a Baby Blue Marine. (Google it).

Thomas

What if a student attending plumbing school and fail to pay attention to the instructor about how to fit a pipe. When the pressure is turn and the pipe burst and smack the student in the face, down goes the student. What if a student didn't pay attention to the electronic class and cross the wrong wire. Then he turn on the juice, what do you get crispy fry electrician. There are times these young recruits doesn't pay attention to the DI's, some times a whack up side their head might save their life out there on a live training or the battle field.

Txlady

I've never been in the military, but I couldn't resist answering this. If people didn't cause the drill instructor to put their "frickin' " hands all over them, it wouldn't be. Agree with hitting people? No, not unless they are being aggressive to the point that they are going to hit the innocent person first. It then becomes self defence.

Ex Air Force/Navy

A Marine "should" be hit. It's part of the real training. Makes them tough men who can chew bullets and drink hard and learn to yell "Ohhhhraaaa" as they take a beating the way it was meant to be.

Andy

Good assessment soldier. After reading these answers, I realize that I haven't read more crap in all of my life than in these answers. This has nothing to do with discipline or toughness. I have no problem with violence or pain, but the context is very important to me. I'll tell of my experiences.

Early in training a fellow soldier was assaulted by a DI while in formation. I instinctually broke my position of attention and assumed a fighting stance in the direction of the assualt (while assessing the extent, location, and nature of the seemingly unprovoked conflict). The DI was in front of me in a second and called me to attention. I reported that I was prepared to engage a threat to a fellow soldier. After he claimed responsibility, I reported that I was prepared to engage him, though he was a DI, in defense of myself and of my platoon. I saw this as a breach of the UCMJ, soldiers attacking soldiers.

Second to last week of Basic, my DI positioned me in full chemical gear with no ammunition (blanks) and my rifle. I was instructed to remain undetected in this contaminated zone and fire on hostiles in my zone of fire. He then attacked these positions with him and his favorite soldiers not in chemical gear and with blanks. When they approached my position from a distance, they were in the clear open field, and I picked off each one with my imaginary bullets and a yelled bang (through my mask) for each shot, but simulating the semi-automatic reload was not as fast or easy. They knew I was firing at them but couldn't find me, so I killed each one again and again (no one dropped as casualties). Once they approached my position, I stopped firing because there were too many to risk revealing my position. I remained hidden and quiet with the intent to let them pass and engage them from behind. But here is were the story gets wierd, the DI stops the squad and mumbles something about remembering to place my in a certain position (I had moved from that position some distance for better cover), and he began to search for me from that position. After two minutes, he tripped over me (he wouldn't have found me if he didn't know exactly where I had been placed). He jumped onto me as I began firing on his squad, I got four verbal "bangs!" out on four soldiers, who incidentally did fall as casualties. He tried to wrestle my weapon from me, pulling it hard against the front of my neck while I lie prone on the ground, but I would not release it. He told me to release me weapon or his squad would fire upon me. With my weight on my weapon, I pulled the trigger in the general direction of his squad with my other hand and he assaulted me with the butt of his rifle on the back of my head and on my back. He ordered me to release my weapon and I obeyed his order as my DI. I was taken as a prisoner by the orders of my NCO and treated as a POW WITHOUT the protections of the Geneva convention by my fellow soldiers. I wanted to fight him, but I couldn't because he was a fellow soldier.

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