Gun control?

Gin Sling

This is a terrible and tragic event and I mourn for the lost students and feel for the parents, as many felt for those in the UK when a lunatic went into a primary school in Dunblane.

Trying to find some sense out of this I searched "GUN DEATHS INTERNATIONAL STATISTICS" hoping to find supporting statistics to show that:-

the USA is -the most violent country-

As many here in Europe believe, and it is the US's phobia of being without this last means of defence (guns for all who want them) that is the root cause of all this horror. Also in the USA's Government there is a terrible inertia built in to the American psychy of not wanting to mess with the Gun Law status quo / or the polictically powerful NRA and gun lobby groups.

Of course it was naieve of me as it is not a straight forward argument - many have been this way before and each faction has there own spin on the awful statistics of death by gun violence. I do know though in many states of the US with a driving licence I (a UK citizen) can walk into a gun store and order "HEAVY DUTY MACHINE GUN" that could grace the gun turret of a tank and be the pride of an armed revolt.

WHY OH WHY would any private citizen possibly need to own such a thing. I understand that some do ( 'cos they are obsessed with the things) but there is no possible justification for heavy calibre weapons like that - nor should they be so readily available ( a phycological profile at least!!) at some point some political leader has got to say.....

"OK we've tried it this way and it OBVIOUSLY IS NOT WORKING..... lets try something else so our kids can grow up without this terrible fear of being gunned down in the street.............. " HOPEFULLY

truth_and_time_tells_all

I know this is not your opinion.
How would carrying guns help them protect themselves the gunman didn't care about hurting people so being shot himself wouldn't have worried him.

I saw that documentary Bowling for Columbine if you haven't seen it you must. In one state they give away free guns when people open a bank account. Make all guns illegal that what I say.

WHEN USED GUNS = PAIN plain and simple.

CLIVE H

There is not going to be any gun control in the USA. Most Americans believe they have the right to bear arms. Even if the wording of the Constitution is not exact on this matter, since most Americans believe they have the right to bear arms, they are not ever going to give up that right. Politicians who think they can control this 'right' had really better think before they leap into the burning pit.

We have enough gun crime here in UK, so I do not want people here anyway, just being able to have guns.

The Revolutionary Americans fought and won a major victory, finally defeating the British. What it says in the American Constitution is for the Americans to interpret.

Okay, so back in 1776 the idea of a gun [arms] was a heavy weapon called a musket. This weapon in the hands of a Red Coat [a professional front line soldier] would take on average about 20 second to load. It could probably be done quicker but this usually meant firing with the ram rod still inside the barrel of the weapon.

Since 1776 the 'gun' has become a weapon of mass killing and can be fired almost endlessly at will.

Do please try and bear these things in mind when talking about the right to bear arms. What Georgian Americans of 200+ years ago understood by 'arms' [the gun] is quite different from what we actually have available today.

Pedant

For gun control, I'd use the handle. And to operate, the trigger. And what else were the lobbyists going to say ? They are lobbyists. By all accounts Norway and Canada have very high levels of gun ownership, but not the same levels of shootings...

See Bowling for Colombine to promote futher ideas on why these types of incidences seem to occur mostly in the USA.

Bud#21

To say,"...a gun is a lot harder to stand up to than a knife for instance[; therefore, we should outlaw guns]." makes for a weak argument. The fact that a gun is harder to stand up against than a knife gives no valid reason to outlaw guns. A car is a lot harder to stand up against, but I am not going to ask for the outlawing of cars, on those grounds. I think you are right to question the validity of the argument - due to yesterdays college shooting, gun laws should be relaxed. This is an absurd argument. I think that you should keep in mind that whether you support gun ownership or not, you are going to be faced with weak arguments on both sides of the issue.

Jacob W

I don't think you give people enough credit. We always hear this same argument that armed citizens will all start shooting each other. Many states have had right to carry laws for years and it has not happened yet. But the crime rate has dropped in most of those states.

You should understand, that these states require a license to carry and that requires special training. You still cannot just walk into a store, buy a gun and strap it on.

Do you realize when you outlaw guns only outlaws will have them? That is the worst case scenario. Thirty two unarmed people are no match for one armed one. No armed students or faculty equals ducks in a barrel.

Higlet

imagine you are a student and hear shots in your campus.
You have a gun.

You decide to fight back (because you are american and believe that you are Bruce Willis in die hard).

50 other people have the same idea.

Now imagine 50 students shooting at anyone and anything they see - they can't 'defend' themselves against the original lone gun nut - because noone will know who he is!!

HJ_Galant_ Boy

Everyone should have dual shotguns...that way we'd all be safe...

Uhh yeah...why are gun-nuts so damn crazy.

Avalon

Again, I agree with you. It shows the perversity of human mind to hear these people argue that this incidence shows that gun control should be RELAXED. Wasn't the Second World War a good example of what happens when people exercise their God-given rights to arm themselves without some form of over-arching control being applied? In a way this proves that history will continue to repeat itself because there will always be elements of human society that refuses to acknowledge the consequences of its own action. It will only be the individuals and families that will pay the price of blind arrogance through their suffering and pain.

School Is Great

Anything can be a weapon in the wrong hands.

The Instructor

First of all let me offer my condolences for this horrible act of devestation.

I am British and pro gun ownership. I believe handguns,shotguns ,rifles and semi automatic rifles should be allowed for sporting purposes. Only with proper training, competency tests, Character, background, police and mental checks on a regular basis. I think its wrong for the pro gun lobbyists to say something like that because it is very stupid and just makes all of us who wish to enjoy the sport of shooting seem like paranoid gun nuts. I feel it also damages my side of things when the sole argument seems to be self defence when i believe it is the sport that counts and self defence is a just a handy by product of gun owner ship. You are correct in saying that it wouldhave just led to people panicing and loosing off rounds in all directions. Although if my idea of proper training and competency tests were allowed this might not be a problem. Americans have the right to bear arms i think this right should be earned.
Us Brits do not have this right even if we have earned it.

tmnasn

I new Americans were dumb but I didn't realise they were quite that dumb.

wizjp

People argue to the point of view they want. I've seen people here argue if the students had been armed, this wouldh't have happened; I've seen people say if all guns were gone it wouldn't have happened.

The truth, sadly lies at a midpoint; and it will always happen.

signingtoday

Like many of you, I would like to see strengthen gun laws. Smart gun users need to also support better gun laws. Why do some states still don't do background checks for criminals or require background checks at gun shows? Why not have a wait period to at least prevent people from making a rash decision. How about only 1 gun per month. Prevent the police from selling old guns which some sells in the hundreds. If gun owners want to responsible, forget a little convenience and support laws to keep guns out of the hands of the criminals, crazies and stress out people. Close the loopholes. I can respect a gun owner if he would at least support smart gun control instead of supporting hard-line NRA positions.

Ben

I agree with you, and I wish there were more people like you who are brave enough to speak up against the idiots who think everyone should be armed.

Steel Lady

It's Columbine all over again - has no one paid any attention to Michael Moore?
I know over here in Britain we have lower levels of gun ownership and lower levels of gun crime, but I read on the internet today that a company has just launched a range of knife proof hoodies and they are moving into school uniforms next - different weapon, same problem, just easier to kill more people with a gun than with a knife.

alec.

i own a gun but with licence [ concealed carry].i feel gun law should continue,age is the main factor.in eastern countries like india there is hardly an incident like this and to own a gun is next to impossible.very few own a gun .

Ivan R

Hello,

(ANS) The massacre of 32 totally innocent people on a US university campus yesturday, proves yet again beyond any shadow of doubte that the right to bear arms is completely insane.

But there again alot for what passes for American culture is also utterly non sensicle & insane.

**The right to bear arms is utterly indefensible in my opinion.

**How many more innocent people have to be shot dead in the USA in cold blood before Americans do away with this utterly irrational idea that bearing a gun is the answer to the problem.

**In my opinion if you take away ALL guns then perhaps the level of fear & paranoia would drop and perhaps much of the violence & death with it, but it seems Amercians are addicted to the use of "Power Over" everything, which is why they have the shoot first ask questions later mentality.

**So much for the land of the free? Yes! a land in which one person has the freedom to kill 32 innocent people for no apparent reason.

**If killing 32 innocent people is the american dream you can keep it, more like an amercian nightmare.

**I'm NOT optimistic that there wont be many many more massacres in the USA until Americnas change their own ideas on gun ownership, & gun control. Until guns are banned full stop.

IR

Duffer

Yes, the way to combat gun crime is to allow even more guns. Which moron came up with that?

Mose

I completely agree with your point.
Many including the NRA persist in quoting only a part of the second amendment "The right to bear arms". However the full text is:"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
The amendment was put in place as states are forbidden in the U.S. Constitution from keeping troops independent from the Federal government but must rely on citizen militias for their defence.
Therefore increasing gun control, some kind of federal licensing and vetting would not be unconstitutional. Neither would a ban on certain types of weapon.
This won't solve the problem of too many weapons in circulation, however it would make it more manageable. As in the UK any changes should be implemented with an initial amnesty to remove surplus weapons from circulation.
It's also important to remember that the Constitution was written in the days of muskets and modern weapons are very different from the weapons of 1791.

Antriksh

Yes, I agree with you. Instead of giving guns to students, security should be increased. Providing guns will definitely lead to mass shootout and it will become more difficult to find out guilty.

Rosa

I know, I have also been asking questions this morning, the first being "Why doesnt USA just ban fire arms?" and got answers like:
"Would you rather he had pushed them out the window?" and "He could have run them over"
what, 32 people???? c'mon, people, one thing is stand for your country and another and a very different one is to admit when something is wrong, right? Get real please!
I mean, how can you seriously say that would I rather prefer he had thrown them out of the window? or"Even if the guns were banned ,he would have done it anyway, or he would have made a bomb"

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AsV55HVAb2aVK5Ig9qQukpQgBgx.?qid=20070417012712AA1bW9z

Btw......I know that all that industry generates a lot of money, but if you ask me, the base of these values is wrong and totally obsolete, I dont see how ANYONE can say that it makes sense because it doesn't. The constitution was created in a different time when (as old&wise said) guns were needed. Nowadays, we are supposed to be smarter than that.

funnelweb

If guns an ammunition were banned, in time the police in the US would soon cease to need guns themselves. In the UK where there is strict gun control, there may be occasional shooting, but nothing like the US. Our police in the UK have an emergency armed response unit, that is all. Less guns does mean less risk of people going on the rampage with a loaded weapon. The biggest risk in terms of deadly weapons in the UK is big sharp knifes. Much easier to run away from than a bullet.

Heather

I agree with you completely. I would have thought if the students were allowed to carry guns, it would have probably lead to more problems
I know it wouldn't stop tragedies happening, but the less guns around the better as far as I'm concerned.

wise old owl

Let's face it guys, we don't need firearms today. The ONLY reason it is part of the Constitution is that when this document was written America was a new nation with few people. At that time people needed guns to find food for their families as most were farmers and woodsmen. Today There is no need for this anymore. The Constitution should be updated to take note of society today. Guns are NOT needed now!

Winston Smith

When guns are readily available, things like this will inevitably occur. A psycho is an accident waiting to happen, and a gun is a tool waiting to be employed by one such.

Rachel

I think those people saying that should be locked up in amental institution. Do they actually understand what they are saying. If all the students had guns then it would have been like a remake of the film Heat when they ahve just robbed a bank.
What a load of cra p, gun lobbyists should be prosecuted for their part in the massacre.

Christina

It is time we, as Americans, take a hard look at European Gun Laws. There is a reason their crime rates are lower and there murder rates are lower. How many average citizens in the country have hand guns compared to the criminals who have them. Whose rights are being protected. I have two children to send to college in a couple of years, I want tighter gun control and I want it now. If you want a hunting rifle, fine, but there is absolutely no legitimate reason I will believe that average citizens need guns. The gun lobbies are out of control and now they are putting our children in danger for profit. It is time we stand up and protect ourselves and our children by getting the guns off the streets and out of the hands of everyday people who might have a bad day and decide to kill 30 people.

Dave B.

I agree with you completely.

I own several firearms. I was trained in their proper handling in the U.S. Army. There are appropriate places for them. A college dorm is not one of those places.

If the students had firearms, and used them, there would be many more deaths/injuries due to frightened, panic stricken students shooting at anything that might be perceived as a threat.

The current state of gun control is fine. It's not the issue. If guns were completely outlawed, people wanting to kill other people will still find a way.

Enter Your Message or Comment

User Name:
User Email:
Post a comment: